Complete Adventurer Beastskin armor: Screw-up, or Stealth Nerf? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Complete Adventurer Beastskin armor: Screw-up, or Stealth Nerf? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Count Arioch the 28th
06-18-05, 12:07 PM Was looking through my copy of Complete Adventurer, and was examining Beastskin armor quality. Seemed like another blatant power-up to druid to me, then I came across a little blurb at the end.

It said that you retain armor proficiency no matter what form you are in. (Not exact wording, but I'm unsure about copywrite violations, so I'm not quoting word for word. Plus, the book's in my car and I don't feel like digging it out right now.)

From my understanding, you didn't lose armor proficiency when your form changes. I looked up Polymorph, Alter Self, and Wildshape. None of them insinuated that changing form made you lose proficiency all of a sudden.

So, is this a mistake, or some form of stealth nerf?
Someone
06-18-05, 01:34 PM That does seem rather odd. Maybe it has something to do with not all creatures being proficient in armor unless described as such. For example, a regular horse isn't proficient in armor, but a warhorse is.

Or perhaps they thought too many druids were wildshaping and then putting on barding or something. But you're right- I don't see why you would suddenly forget how to wear armor if you used alter self to change from a chainmail-wearing-human to a chainmail-wearing-elf. Maybe if you shapechanged into a dragon, but your armor would meld into your new form anyway.
DDogwood
06-18-05, 01:38 PM It means just what it says, you don't lose armor proficiency when you change forms. It's meant to address the fact that when you wild shape, you take on the Animal type, and Animals are not normally proficient in any weapons or armor (as per the monster manual). So you can be, for example, a black bear or a goat wearing armor.
Count Arioch the 28th
06-18-05, 01:42 PM But technically, you never lost the proficiency in the first place, a druid wildshaped into a bear then fitted with hide armor made to a bear's specs wouldn't incur any penalty besides noraml armor check and speed reduction.

It didn't need to be adressed at all, according to the SRD, you don't lose armor proficiency when changing forms.
Draco Light
06-18-05, 02:40 PM A thought...

Polymorph allows you to change creature type and subtype. Armor proficiency for many creatures is based off of type.

Perhaps it's a clarification that you won't suddenly be proficient in Heavy Armor if you decide to turn into a Fire Giant. A prior Rules of the Game article (this one, namely (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a)) could seem to indicate that you would gain armor proficiency for doing that.
Welt
06-18-05, 04:09 PM I suppose that's what it could be referring to. Fire giants are proficient with heavy armour because of a function of the Giant type; a fire giant wild shaped or polymorphed into a bear would lose their type and, thus, that proficiency.

Otherwise, i don't really know where else they could be coming from. Proficiency is most often a class feature and class features aren't lost when polymorphed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Count Arioch the 28th 06-18-05, 12:07 PM	Was looking through my copy of Complete Adventurer, and was examining Beastskin armor quality. Seemed like another blatant power-up to druid to me, then I came across a little blurb at the end. It said that you retain armor proficiency no matter what form you are in. (Not exact wording, but I'm unsure about copywrite violations, so I'm not quoting word for word. Plus, the book's in my car and I don't feel like digging it out right now.) From my understanding, you didn't lose armor proficiency when your form changes. I looked up Polymorph, Alter Self, and Wildshape. None of them insinuated that changing form made you lose proficiency all of a sudden. So, is this a mistake, or some form of stealth nerf?
Someone 06-18-05, 01:34 PM	That does seem rather odd. Maybe it has something to do with not all creatures being proficient in armor unless described as such. For example, a regular horse isn't proficient in armor, but a warhorse is. Or perhaps they thought too many druids were wildshaping and then putting on barding or something. But you're right- I don't see why you would suddenly forget how to wear armor if you used alter self to change from a chainmail-wearing-human to a chainmail-wearing-elf. Maybe if you shapechanged into a dragon, but your armor would meld into your new form anyway.
DDogwood 06-18-05, 01:38 PM	It means just what it says, you don't lose armor proficiency when you change forms. It's meant to address the fact that when you wild shape, you take on the Animal type, and Animals are not normally proficient in any weapons or armor (as per the monster manual). So you can be, for example, a black bear or a goat wearing armor.
Count Arioch the 28th 06-18-05, 01:42 PM	But technically, you never lost the proficiency in the first place, a druid wildshaped into a bear then fitted with hide armor made to a bear's specs wouldn't incur any penalty besides noraml armor check and speed reduction. It didn't need to be adressed at all, according to the SRD, you don't lose armor proficiency when changing forms.
Draco Light 06-18-05, 02:40 PM	A thought... Polymorph allows you to change creature type and subtype. Armor proficiency for many creatures is based off of type. Perhaps it's a clarification that you won't suddenly be proficient in Heavy Armor if you decide to turn into a Fire Giant. A prior Rules of the Game article (this one, namely (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040525a)) could seem to indicate that you would gain armor proficiency for doing that.
Welt 06-18-05, 04:09 PM	I suppose that's what it could be referring to. Fire giants are proficient with heavy armour because of a function of the Giant type; a fire giant wild shaped or polymorphed into a bear would lose their type and, thus, that proficiency. Otherwise, i don't really know where else they could be coming from. Proficiency is most often a class feature and class features aren't lost when polymorphed.