Complete Adventurer - Master's Touch - WTF? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Complete Adventurer - Master's Touch - WTF? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EmperorKO
01-17-05, 11:55 PM OK, I have to be reading something wrong here, but I can't figure out what. I'm not one to make posts about how "broken" or "unbalanced" anything in the game may be, but in this case I'll make an exception.

Master's Touch, from Complete Adventurer. 1st level spell, takes 1 swift action, makes you proficient with whatever weapon you may be holding at the time you cast it, lasts for 1 minute/level. That by itself is perfectly fine.

Make it into a ring.

Cost for a magic item with a continuous effect would be spell level x caster level x 2000 x 2 for a spell with a duration measured in minutes. This gives us a Ring of Master's Touch, which functions continuously, for a measly 4000 gp.

OK, now what am I missing here? This seems to be the most broken thing I've ever seen. If it functions continuously, wouldn't it make your proficient with whatever weapon you're holding at the time, effectively giving you EVERY weapon proficiency in the game? For 4000 gp??
DM Zoc
01-18-05, 12:09 AM Actually, a more-broken item would be a ring of continuous True Strike. The rules for pricing items are just guidelines, not to be taken definitively.

Even then, weapon proficiency is not that powerful. I don't even know if it would be worth it...
Iver Gearsham
01-18-05, 12:59 AM In the dmg a sugested price for anything that dups a feat costs 10,000 gp + 10,000 for each suporting feat.
Lord Schpungus
01-18-05, 01:59 AM I think that's actually in the Arms and Equipment Guide. I don't remember it in the DMG..
IceFractal
01-18-05, 03:33 AM Yeah, if you go by the pricing guidelines you could have Fast Healing 1d8+1 for 2,000 gp (belt of CLW whenever below full health).
Kratch
01-18-05, 05:49 AM There's a weapon enhancment (i think it's in complete arcane) that gives the wielder preficiency with the weapon and if memory serves, another little boost as well. I don't have the books handy so i'm not entirely sure.
Ipsissimus
01-18-05, 07:33 AM There is still another part of the equation missing from the price guide. It's the DM variable.

There's no way...wait, no DM in their right mind who wants to run a fun/balance game would allow a fast healing item for 4000 gp or less...or even more.

As for your ring of the master's touch...it's only more benefical for a character who doesn't have martial. Granted there are a lot of exotic weapons now a days but still, I don't see a fighter type going out of his way to use up a ring slot for that item. A cleric or rogue maybe but rings are way to good.

Other ways you can tone the ring down without affecting the price would be, though the duration is continuous you would need a standard action to wield the weapon and activate the ring, much like many magical items. Then all of a sudden it's not so great...minor drawback and everything. Otherwise up the price.
Shadow Blade
01-18-05, 09:38 AM From here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a). Some help and comments on creating items

When the Formulas Fail: Table 7-33 provides the basic tool for determining item prices and costs, but many items don't fit the table. Many spells in the game work fine as spells, but spells come with built-in limits on their power, and chief among those is the simple fact that a spell is used up when cast and a character has only so many spells available each day. Many spells become world beaters when they're placed in items that work continuously or in items that can be reused over and over again. For example, a ring of invisibility is a command-activated item that duplicates a 2nd-level spell, and its caster level is 3rd (the minimum to cast the spell). According to Table 7-33, such an item has a cost of 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp (spell level x caster x 1,800 gp). So, a ring of invisibility costs 10,800 gp, right? Wrong, it costs nearly twice that much (20,000 gp) because an endless supply of invisibility spells are worth something extra.
mercurial67
01-18-05, 07:43 PM Cost for a magic item with a continuous effect would be spell level x caster level x 2000 x 2 for a spell with a duration measured in minutes. This gives us a Ring of Master's Touch, which functions continuously, for a measly 4000 gp.There is only one problem with what you are suggesting. For a continuous effect item, the spell is cast at the time the item is created and is in effect from then on out. This would mean you have a ring which grants you proficiency with one particular weapon.

You could get around this by making it command word activated. This means you have to be holding the weapon in your hand and use a standard action to activate the ring. The proficiency would then last for 1 minute (it was created as a first level caster). You can activate the ring all you want, but you must have the weapon in hand & spend the standard action to gain the proficiency. (Note: this actually costs less at 3,800gp 1x1x1800x2)

Neither of those are earth shattering in my opinion.
evangelion1010
01-18-05, 08:10 PM It uses up a ring slot, as already mentioned. Its not really that good, especially at higher levels, when rings can do much better things than feats.

And if you use weapon groups from UA, the ring is nearly worthless...
Rurik "The Silent"
01-18-05, 08:50 PM if you dont want it to take up a ring slot then double the price to what 8k then make it a no-slot item. like an ioun stone or pin or something else that has no slot.
EmperorKO
01-18-05, 10:46 PM There is only one problem with what you are suggesting. For a continuous effect item, the spell is cast at the time the item is created and is in effect from then on out. This would mean you have a ring which grants you proficiency with one particular weapon.

Ahhh, OK. I do believe you've found what I was misreading here. That makes much more sense.
TyraaloftheFist
01-19-05, 07:48 AM And if you use weapon groups from UA, the ring is nearly worthless...

...Actually, if you use the weapon groups, then it's either the friggin' bomb, or just as useful as if you weren't using weapon groups. It's the bomb if if gives proficiency with a weapon group, but otherwise, it's just like normal.
Pinky's brain
01-19-05, 07:59 AM Yeah, if you go by the pricing guidelines you could have Fast Healing 1d8+1 for 2,000 gp (belt of CLW whenever below full health).Duration instantaneous, so no ... best you could do is a command word activated item, since it takes a standard action that isnt nearly as abusive (pushing the limits a bit though).

The vigor spells from complete divine would work, but fast healing 1 would cost you 8000 gp.
Patrick Draken-Korin
01-19-05, 02:55 PM the ioun stone of master's touch is a good idea, i think i'll use that.

a ring of fasting healing has already been made> epic level handbook, p. 136, do you know if i can give it's stats here?
Pinky's brain
01-19-05, 03:13 PM Sure, it is open content ... 300K for a ring which gives you fast healing 3, if you were to use greater vigor from complete of divine and the standard pricing rules you could get fast healing 4 for 360K.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EmperorKO 01-17-05, 11:55 PM	OK, I have to be reading something wrong here, but I can't figure out what. I'm not one to make posts about how "broken" or "unbalanced" anything in the game may be, but in this case I'll make an exception. Master's Touch, from Complete Adventurer. 1st level spell, takes 1 swift action, makes you proficient with whatever weapon you may be holding at the time you cast it, lasts for 1 minute/level. That by itself is perfectly fine. Make it into a ring. Cost for a magic item with a continuous effect would be spell level x caster level x 2000 x 2 for a spell with a duration measured in minutes. This gives us a Ring of Master's Touch, which functions continuously, for a measly 4000 gp. OK, now what am I missing here? This seems to be the most broken thing I've ever seen. If it functions continuously, wouldn't it make your proficient with whatever weapon you're holding at the time, effectively giving you EVERY weapon proficiency in the game? For 4000 gp??
DM Zoc 01-18-05, 12:09 AM	Actually, a more-broken item would be a ring of continuous True Strike. The rules for pricing items are just guidelines, not to be taken definitively. Even then, weapon proficiency is not that powerful. I don't even know if it would be worth it...
Iver Gearsham 01-18-05, 12:59 AM	In the dmg a sugested price for anything that dups a feat costs 10,000 gp + 10,000 for each suporting feat.
Lord Schpungus 01-18-05, 01:59 AM	I think that's actually in the Arms and Equipment Guide. I don't remember it in the DMG..
IceFractal 01-18-05, 03:33 AM	Yeah, if you go by the pricing guidelines you could have Fast Healing 1d8+1 for 2,000 gp (belt of CLW whenever below full health).
Kratch 01-18-05, 05:49 AM	There's a weapon enhancment (i think it's in complete arcane) that gives the wielder preficiency with the weapon and if memory serves, another little boost as well. I don't have the books handy so i'm not entirely sure.
Ipsissimus 01-18-05, 07:33 AM	There is still another part of the equation missing from the price guide. It's the DM variable. There's no way...wait, no DM in their right mind who wants to run a fun/balance game would allow a fast healing item for 4000 gp or less...or even more. As for your ring of the master's touch...it's only more benefical for a character who doesn't have martial. Granted there are a lot of exotic weapons now a days but still, I don't see a fighter type going out of his way to use up a ring slot for that item. A cleric or rogue maybe but rings are way to good. Other ways you can tone the ring down without affecting the price would be, though the duration is continuous you would need a standard action to wield the weapon and activate the ring, much like many magical items. Then all of a sudden it's not so great...minor drawback and everything. Otherwise up the price.
Shadow Blade 01-18-05, 09:38 AM	From here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a). Some help and comments on creating items When the Formulas Fail: Table 7-33 provides the basic tool for determining item prices and costs, but many items don't fit the table. Many spells in the game work fine as spells, but spells come with built-in limits on their power, and chief among those is the simple fact that a spell is used up when cast and a character has only so many spells available each day. Many spells become world beaters when they're placed in items that work continuously or in items that can be reused over and over again. For example, a ring of invisibility is a command-activated item that duplicates a 2nd-level spell, and its caster level is 3rd (the minimum to cast the spell). According to Table 7-33, such an item has a cost of 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp (spell level x caster x 1,800 gp). So, a ring of invisibility costs 10,800 gp, right? Wrong, it costs nearly twice that much (20,000 gp) because an endless supply of invisibility spells are worth something extra.
mercurial67 01-18-05, 07:43 PM	Cost for a magic item with a continuous effect would be spell level x caster level x 2000 x 2 for a spell with a duration measured in minutes. This gives us a Ring of Master's Touch, which functions continuously, for a measly 4000 gp.There is only one problem with what you are suggesting. For a continuous effect item, the spell is cast at the time the item is created and is in effect from then on out. This would mean you have a ring which grants you proficiency with one particular weapon. You could get around this by making it command word activated. This means you have to be holding the weapon in your hand and use a standard action to activate the ring. The proficiency would then last for 1 minute (it was created as a first level caster). You can activate the ring all you want, but you must have the weapon in hand & spend the standard action to gain the proficiency. (Note: this actually costs less at 3,800gp 1x1x1800x2) Neither of those are earth shattering in my opinion.
evangelion1010 01-18-05, 08:10 PM	It uses up a ring slot, as already mentioned. Its not really that good, especially at higher levels, when rings can do much better things than feats. And if you use weapon groups from UA, the ring is nearly worthless...
Rurik "The Silent" 01-18-05, 08:50 PM	if you dont want it to take up a ring slot then double the price to what 8k then make it a no-slot item. like an ioun stone or pin or something else that has no slot.
EmperorKO 01-18-05, 10:46 PM	There is only one problem with what you are suggesting. For a continuous effect item, the spell is cast at the time the item is created and is in effect from then on out. This would mean you have a ring which grants you proficiency with one particular weapon. Ahhh, OK. I do believe you've found what I was misreading here. That makes much more sense.
TyraaloftheFist 01-19-05, 07:48 AM	And if you use weapon groups from UA, the ring is nearly worthless... ...Actually, if you use the weapon groups, then it's either the friggin' bomb, or just as useful as if you weren't using weapon groups. It's the bomb if if gives proficiency with a weapon group, but otherwise, it's just like normal.
Pinky's brain 01-19-05, 07:59 AM	Yeah, if you go by the pricing guidelines you could have Fast Healing 1d8+1 for 2,000 gp (belt of CLW whenever below full health).Duration instantaneous, so no ... best you could do is a command word activated item, since it takes a standard action that isnt nearly as abusive (pushing the limits a bit though). The vigor spells from complete divine would work, but fast healing 1 would cost you 8000 gp.
Patrick Draken-Korin 01-19-05, 02:55 PM	the ioun stone of master's touch is a good idea, i think i'll use that. a ring of fasting healing has already been made> epic level handbook, p. 136, do you know if i can give it's stats here?
Pinky's brain 01-19-05, 03:13 PM	Sure, it is open content ... 300K for a ring which gives you fast healing 3, if you were to use greater vigor from complete of divine and the standard pricing rules you could get fast healing 4 for 360K.