Complete Prone [Archive] - Wizards Community

Complete Prone [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Chaotix42
09-04-06, 11:13 AM Our group has had a lot of "problems" with characters being prone and wanting to do things I can not find covered anywhere in the rules. So, I pose a few questions:

1. While prone, can a character move and still remain prone? Ie, can a character after being knocked prone remain prone and crawl or roll away?

2. If the above is possible, does that mean a prone character can tumble while remaining prone? A PC monk in a game of mine wanted to make a tumble check to move away from an opponent after falling in front of them, instead of standing and provoking an AoO.

I couldn't find any rules on whether or not your movement is hampered while being prone, just that you take penalties to combat situations like attack and AC. Any help?
Piggyfreak6
09-04-06, 11:16 AM I would say as a house rule, that if you choose to drop prone, your speed is decreased by half. But I'm not really sure.
Chaotix42
09-04-06, 11:21 AM That's how I ruled it at first, that prone movement was halved, and that prone tumbling quartered movement. Still, I wanted to see if any rules exist for this before I move on to enstating house rules.

If it does fall to house ruling, does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking a +5 to tumble DCs while prone... maybe 10. And the movement adjustments mentioned above as well. But I'm not exactly sure! :embarrass
Pandaemoni
09-04-06, 11:22 AM There are rules for both.

(1) You can crawl while prone...5 feet as a move action. So it's not very fast. (page 142 of the PHB)

(2) You can use tumble to get to standing as a free action (DC 35 Tumble check, so it's a hard one)....but you still provoke an attack of opportunity. That rule is on page 103 of the Complete Adventurer.

Damn, and here I was thinking "Complete Prone" would be the next splatbook after Complete Scoundrel. :D
Chaotix42
09-04-06, 11:31 AM Sweet. I'll check that out in the PHB.

We saw the kip up in Complete Adventurer too, but the PCs can't make a DC 35 skill check yet. :(

So, that 5 foot movement while prone, as a move action... that wouldn't count as a 5 foot step, right? It would provoke an AoO? My PCs are so looking for a way to move away from enemies while prone and remain safe at the same time; the big nasties are really making them hurt once they fall on their faces. :w00t:
hunterc311
09-04-06, 11:31 AM A PC monk in a game of mine wanted to make a tumble check to move away from an opponent after falling in front of them, instead of standing and provoking an AoO.

You can stand up from being prone without provoking an AoO if you do it in two steps. First, you go from prone to kneeling, which is a move action and does not provoke an AoO. Second, you go from kneeling to standing, which is also a move action, and does not provoke an AoO. Needless to say, this takes a full round to do, unless you gain an extra move action somehow (say from the psionic power hustle).

FYI, prone gives you a -4 to your attack roll, while kneeling gives you a -2 to your attack roll. You can be knocked prone from the kneeling position just as you can from the standing position. I am not 100% on this, but I believe you can move while kneeling the same way you can move while prone; only 5 feet as a move action.
Damionte
09-04-06, 11:32 AM Edit: I'm typing too slow today. Others posted while I was clipty clopping.

You guys, just go through the rulebook more carefully.

When prone you may only move a total of 5 feet as a move action or you can stand up as a move action. Both suffer attacks of opportunity. Being prone provokes attacks of opportunity for entering or exiting threatened squares.

According to the rules of the game artical on movement you can tumble while prone. You can use tumble to avoid the attack of opportunity while crawling but not to avoid the attack of opportunity for standing up.

You ca nstand up as a free action with a DC 35 tumble check. There is a prestige class in Complete Adventurer called "Thief Accrobat" which gives you this ability.

While prone you suffer a -4 to AC in melee but get +4 AC against ranged. I believe you also suffer -4 to your melee attack rolls while prone. It might be -2. I forgot so go look it up. While prone you can attack with a melee weapon, a thrown weapon or a X-Bow. Most bows can't be used while prone. Only whoile kneeling.

The feat <Prone attack> from complete warrior let's you attack while prone wihtout taking a penalty. If oyu hit you can stand as a free action. (It doesn't mention anything about not taking na attack of opportunity, "check the errata to make sure."

That's most of the stuff we have in the rules off the otp of my head.. There are a ton of houserules though people have used.
hunterc311
09-04-06, 11:35 AM So, that 5 foot movement while prone, as a move action... that wouldn't count as a 5 foot step, right? It would provoke an AoO?

Correct, it's not the free action that is a 5 foot adjustment, it is an actual move action that is reduced to 5 feet in distance. It will provoke an AoO, so it rarely pays to try and crawl away right in front of the enemy. However, I am not certain on this, but I think you can still tumble on this 5 foot movement to avoid the AoO, even though it's only 5 feet. Someone might want to back that up.

My PCs are so looking for a way to move away from enemies while prone and remain safe at the same time; the big nasties are really making them hurt once they fall on their faces. :w00t:

If you could just escape an enemy safely after being knocked to the ground, that would somewhat defeat the purpose of knocking enemies prone, now wouldn't it? Looks like your PCs will have to better avoid being knocked prone in the first place. ;)
Chaotix42
09-04-06, 11:41 AM Thanks for all the help guys! :bow:

Looks like your PCs will have to better avoid being knocked prone in the first place. ;)

That's what I tell them!
Xeviat-DM
09-04-06, 02:02 PM Most of the posters are correct here: you can move 5 feet while prone as a move action, which will provoke attacks of opportunity. You can tumble to avoid attacks of opportunity while moving, so you can do the same with this; but since tumbling reduces your speed by half, you'll have to take the -10 penalty to tumble at full speed (which is 5 in this case), making the DC effectively 35.

As far as standing from prone as a free action (DC 35, from complete adventurer) provoking an attack of opportunity, by the RAW it does so. I don't like that, so I allow to stand from prone as a move action (DC 35; extrapolated from DC 15 to move without provoking AoO and +10 for full speed modifier), and DC 45 to stand from prone as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity (if you want to stand from prone as a free action and provoke, the DC will remain 35).

So by my interpretation, if you really want to get away, DC 35 tumble to roll 5 feet, then DC 35 tumble to kip up while you're 5 feet away. Congrats!

I beleive the thief acrobat's ability doesn't provoke an AoO, I could be mistaken.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chaotix42 09-04-06, 11:13 AM	Our group has had a lot of "problems" with characters being prone and wanting to do things I can not find covered anywhere in the rules. So, I pose a few questions: 1. While prone, can a character move and still remain prone? Ie, can a character after being knocked prone remain prone and crawl or roll away? 2. If the above is possible, does that mean a prone character can tumble while remaining prone? A PC monk in a game of mine wanted to make a tumble check to move away from an opponent after falling in front of them, instead of standing and provoking an AoO. I couldn't find any rules on whether or not your movement is hampered while being prone, just that you take penalties to combat situations like attack and AC. Any help?
Piggyfreak6 09-04-06, 11:16 AM	I would say as a house rule, that if you choose to drop prone, your speed is decreased by half. But I'm not really sure.
Chaotix42 09-04-06, 11:21 AM	That's how I ruled it at first, that prone movement was halved, and that prone tumbling quartered movement. Still, I wanted to see if any rules exist for this before I move on to enstating house rules. If it does fall to house ruling, does anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking a +5 to tumble DCs while prone... maybe 10. And the movement adjustments mentioned above as well. But I'm not exactly sure! :embarrass
Pandaemoni 09-04-06, 11:22 AM	There are rules for both. (1) You can crawl while prone...5 feet as a move action. So it's not very fast. (page 142 of the PHB) (2) You can use tumble to get to standing as a free action (DC 35 Tumble check, so it's a hard one)....but you still provoke an attack of opportunity. That rule is on page 103 of the Complete Adventurer. Damn, and here I was thinking "Complete Prone" would be the next splatbook after Complete Scoundrel. :D
Chaotix42 09-04-06, 11:31 AM	Sweet. I'll check that out in the PHB. We saw the kip up in Complete Adventurer too, but the PCs can't make a DC 35 skill check yet. :( So, that 5 foot movement while prone, as a move action... that wouldn't count as a 5 foot step, right? It would provoke an AoO? My PCs are so looking for a way to move away from enemies while prone and remain safe at the same time; the big nasties are really making them hurt once they fall on their faces. :w00t:
hunterc311 09-04-06, 11:31 AM	A PC monk in a game of mine wanted to make a tumble check to move away from an opponent after falling in front of them, instead of standing and provoking an AoO. You can stand up from being prone without provoking an AoO if you do it in two steps. First, you go from prone to kneeling, which is a move action and does not provoke an AoO. Second, you go from kneeling to standing, which is also a move action, and does not provoke an AoO. Needless to say, this takes a full round to do, unless you gain an extra move action somehow (say from the psionic power hustle). FYI, prone gives you a -4 to your attack roll, while kneeling gives you a -2 to your attack roll. You can be knocked prone from the kneeling position just as you can from the standing position. I am not 100% on this, but I believe you can move while kneeling the same way you can move while prone; only 5 feet as a move action.
Damionte 09-04-06, 11:32 AM	Edit: I'm typing too slow today. Others posted while I was clipty clopping. You guys, just go through the rulebook more carefully. When prone you may only move a total of 5 feet as a move action or you can stand up as a move action. Both suffer attacks of opportunity. Being prone provokes attacks of opportunity for entering or exiting threatened squares. According to the rules of the game artical on movement you can tumble while prone. You can use tumble to avoid the attack of opportunity while crawling but not to avoid the attack of opportunity for standing up. You ca nstand up as a free action with a DC 35 tumble check. There is a prestige class in Complete Adventurer called "Thief Accrobat" which gives you this ability. While prone you suffer a -4 to AC in melee but get +4 AC against ranged. I believe you also suffer -4 to your melee attack rolls while prone. It might be -2. I forgot so go look it up. While prone you can attack with a melee weapon, a thrown weapon or a X-Bow. Most bows can't be used while prone. Only whoile kneeling. The feat <Prone attack> from complete warrior let's you attack while prone wihtout taking a penalty. If oyu hit you can stand as a free action. (It doesn't mention anything about not taking na attack of opportunity, "check the errata to make sure." That's most of the stuff we have in the rules off the otp of my head.. There are a ton of houserules though people have used.
hunterc311 09-04-06, 11:35 AM	So, that 5 foot movement while prone, as a move action... that wouldn't count as a 5 foot step, right? It would provoke an AoO? Correct, it's not the free action that is a 5 foot adjustment, it is an actual move action that is reduced to 5 feet in distance. It will provoke an AoO, so it rarely pays to try and crawl away right in front of the enemy. However, I am not certain on this, but I think you can still tumble on this 5 foot movement to avoid the AoO, even though it's only 5 feet. Someone might want to back that up. My PCs are so looking for a way to move away from enemies while prone and remain safe at the same time; the big nasties are really making them hurt once they fall on their faces. :w00t: If you could just escape an enemy safely after being knocked to the ground, that would somewhat defeat the purpose of knocking enemies prone, now wouldn't it? Looks like your PCs will have to better avoid being knocked prone in the first place. ;)
Chaotix42 09-04-06, 11:41 AM	Thanks for all the help guys! :bow: Looks like your PCs will have to better avoid being knocked prone in the first place. ;) That's what I tell them!
Xeviat-DM 09-04-06, 02:02 PM	Most of the posters are correct here: you can move 5 feet while prone as a move action, which will provoke attacks of opportunity. You can tumble to avoid attacks of opportunity while moving, so you can do the same with this; but since tumbling reduces your speed by half, you'll have to take the -10 penalty to tumble at full speed (which is 5 in this case), making the DC effectively 35. As far as standing from prone as a free action (DC 35, from complete adventurer) provoking an attack of opportunity, by the RAW it does so. I don't like that, so I allow to stand from prone as a move action (DC 35; extrapolated from DC 15 to move without provoking AoO and +10 for full speed modifier), and DC 45 to stand from prone as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity (if you want to stand from prone as a free action and provoke, the DC will remain 35). So by my interpretation, if you really want to get away, DC 35 tumble to roll 5 feet, then DC 35 tumble to kip up while you're 5 feet away. Congrats! I beleive the thief acrobat's ability doesn't provoke an AoO, I could be mistaken.