Composite Bow Bonus Max [Archive] - Wizards Community

Composite Bow Bonus Max [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gastropod
03-09-07, 04:28 PM Hi all,

I wanted to know if there is any limit to the STR bonus that can be added to a composite bow.

I see in the PHB it states two examples of +2 and +4. And for some reason most people I talk to think the max bonus is +4. However, I cannot find any definitive rule that places that limit. The only reason that I can think of that most people think of +4 as the max bonus is because I believe that is the max bonus set in the 2nd edition rules.

If anyone knows of the correct siting in the SRD, printed materials, or a link on wizards site I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks
OmnipotentSeal
03-09-07, 04:37 PM The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost.

Longbow, composite entry from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite)

Hypothetically, it could be as high as you want, provided you have the money and required STR mod bonus.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-09-07, 04:40 PM Due to the Materials of the time, anything higher would be magicly enchanted

plus sence the standerd score is about 12, having a +4 is a realy big thing,
but a +6 would be usless to a common person, haveing no chance to get that strong. so yea Magic is about the only option i think
tarkin
03-09-07, 04:48 PM I don't see needing magic to get a +6. Maybe magic to get a +12.

A composite bow is wood + horn + glue + sinew. The sinew is as much to hold everything together as the glue.

In d20, we have darkwood (superior wood), LOTS of monsters with really cool horns and sinew.

Worst case scenario, I could see being required to use a tiny bit of soverign glue to keep the whole thing together.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer
03-09-07, 04:56 PM thouse would be superior weapons, not as common as a standers +4
with thouse they would be rare as magic weapons and have things like a
+1 mighty +6 composit longbow
like a katana, thats a +1 and counts as magic, eventhough it aint.
sark
03-09-07, 05:19 PM Disclaimer: I am somewhat new to the game. ;) :P

So, call me pernickety, but I think the cost should double - or more - for the increased modifiers.... i.e. reading what it says on SRD, 100gp added to cost for each point of strength.... so my ogre with his 28str (+9mod) would only cause the bow to cost an extra 900gp? Again, if i'm reading/interpreting things wrong ok but if not, that sounds ummm... rather cheap for such modification?
WinDReiN
03-09-07, 05:31 PM A War Troll from MM III uses his Composite Longbow with a +10 Str bonus.
The limit is up to the DM.
If you wish, you could limit it by size. Medium weapons up to +5, large +10, huge +15...
Moribund
03-09-07, 05:51 PM Look at the Storm Giant, they have composite longbows with a +14 Str bonus. Granted they are probably 20' long, but it is certainly precedent for very high bonus bows.

I doubt a more powerful spring is something that was beyond the tech of the day. Heck heavy crossbows have pull so heavy they need a winch. You aren't looking for something that will give you a mechanical advantage to pull the bow back like modern compound bows, just something that holds more energy for the same draw length. A wider bow would do that.
sark
03-09-07, 06:48 PM I'm curious though..... do you think the gp cost is too little?
cwslyclgh
03-09-07, 06:50 PM I think the gp costs are fine.
paladin2019
03-09-07, 06:58 PM I have to agree with the no absolute limit. Practical limits and finding a bowyer are another matter. I would not have any mighty bow greater than 18 Str (+4 Str in 3.5 terms) available for purchase; self crafted, booty or boon only.
The_sleeper1
03-09-07, 11:25 PM Disclaimer: I am somewhat new to the game. ;) :P

So, call me pernickety, but I think the cost should double - or more - for the increased modifiers.... i.e. reading what it says on SRD, 100gp added to cost for each point of strength.... so my ogre with his 28str (+9mod) would only cause the bow to cost an extra 900gp? Again, if i'm reading/interpreting things wrong ok but if not, that sounds ummm... rather cheap for such modification?

To just buy the bow is I think 100gp then add in the requirement that the bow is MW at +300 and then your bow for +9 mod becomes totaly 1300gp for totaly +1 enhancement bonus to hit and +9 strength bonus to damage, it does not give you the damage it only lets you take advantage of the strength you have already have had to pay for, I dont see any problem with it.
Moccanime
03-10-07, 07:32 AM In my game I allow it, but you have to find some special materials for it.

When the fighter in my game wanted a bow with a higher strength rating, I gave him a list of what he would need. Note that in my game, the characters always have to find the special materials, just having the money is not enough.
e.g. Mithril and Adamatine is almost impossible to find in regions where it isn't mined.

So when the adventure continued, he kept an eye out for usable materials. When they defeated a gorgon he cut the horns of it, when the visited Areanal he bought some darkwood and bronzewood, and when they encountered halfdragon dinosaurs in Xen'drik, he used his newly inwested ranks in proffesion (hunter) to salvage the sinews from the dead dinos.

Then he brought the things to bowyer, payed the man and presto, one mighty greatbow with a +7 str rating.
Nezkrul
03-10-07, 11:30 AM /sigh

Ok, RAW there is no max, and the entry for making does not mention needing any magic to do so. So requiring it is entirely a houserule, and limiting the bonus to a max is also entirely a houserule.

To the OP: no there is no max, they only printed the +4 due to space limitations on the table. It is also not likely you will find a bow on a weapon store's shelf that has a bonus higher than +4; you would probably have to requisition its creation.
Bhaal006
03-10-07, 11:43 AM I my DM had me find special materials as well, that method is a little more fun and it didn't cost me as much because i crafted it myself, but yeah there's no limit and requiring magic seems kind of lame.
Someone
03-10-07, 12:31 PM No, the price isn't to low, because for 0 gp extra, a thrown weapon has a instantly variable "pull" to precisely your Str bonus every time you use one.
[/wiseguy]

As an aside, technically the basic composite bow is a +0 pull, so if you have a Str penalty, you take an additional -2 to hit as you can't use it properly (can't pull it back all the way, etc.)
Kursk
03-10-07, 12:53 PM Nothing in the RAW except cost per +. At some point you'd have the bow made of metal and probably the "string" too. So, +15 would even be possible by RAW. Make a cool non-magic weapon if you had the Str...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gastropod 03-09-07, 04:28 PM	Hi all, I wanted to know if there is any limit to the STR bonus that can be added to a composite bow. I see in the PHB it states two examples of +2 and +4. And for some reason most people I talk to think the max bonus is +4. However, I cannot find any definitive rule that places that limit. The only reason that I can think of that most people think of +4 as the max bonus is because I believe that is the max bonus set in the 2nd edition rules. If anyone knows of the correct siting in the SRD, printed materials, or a link on wizards site I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks
OmnipotentSeal 03-09-07, 04:37 PM	The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. Longbow, composite entry from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite) Hypothetically, it could be as high as you want, provided you have the money and required STR mod bonus.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-09-07, 04:40 PM	Due to the Materials of the time, anything higher would be magicly enchanted plus sence the standerd score is about 12, having a +4 is a realy big thing, but a +6 would be usless to a common person, haveing no chance to get that strong. so yea Magic is about the only option i think
tarkin 03-09-07, 04:48 PM	I don't see needing magic to get a +6. Maybe magic to get a +12. A composite bow is wood + horn + glue + sinew. The sinew is as much to hold everything together as the glue. In d20, we have darkwood (superior wood), LOTS of monsters with really cool horns and sinew. Worst case scenario, I could see being required to use a tiny bit of soverign glue to keep the whole thing together.
Gorlick_Da_Consumer 03-09-07, 04:56 PM	thouse would be superior weapons, not as common as a standers +4 with thouse they would be rare as magic weapons and have things like a +1 mighty +6 composit longbow like a katana, thats a +1 and counts as magic, eventhough it aint.
sark 03-09-07, 05:19 PM	Disclaimer: I am somewhat new to the game. ;) :P So, call me pernickety, but I think the cost should double - or more - for the increased modifiers.... i.e. reading what it says on SRD, 100gp added to cost for each point of strength.... so my ogre with his 28str (+9mod) would only cause the bow to cost an extra 900gp? Again, if i'm reading/interpreting things wrong ok but if not, that sounds ummm... rather cheap for such modification?
WinDReiN 03-09-07, 05:31 PM	A War Troll from MM III uses his Composite Longbow with a +10 Str bonus. The limit is up to the DM. If you wish, you could limit it by size. Medium weapons up to +5, large +10, huge +15...
Moribund 03-09-07, 05:51 PM	Look at the Storm Giant, they have composite longbows with a +14 Str bonus. Granted they are probably 20' long, but it is certainly precedent for very high bonus bows. I doubt a more powerful spring is something that was beyond the tech of the day. Heck heavy crossbows have pull so heavy they need a winch. You aren't looking for something that will give you a mechanical advantage to pull the bow back like modern compound bows, just something that holds more energy for the same draw length. A wider bow would do that.
sark 03-09-07, 06:48 PM	I'm curious though..... do you think the gp cost is too little?
cwslyclgh 03-09-07, 06:50 PM	I think the gp costs are fine.
paladin2019 03-09-07, 06:58 PM	I have to agree with the no absolute limit. Practical limits and finding a bowyer are another matter. I would not have any mighty bow greater than 18 Str (+4 Str in 3.5 terms) available for purchase; self crafted, booty or boon only.
The_sleeper1 03-09-07, 11:25 PM	Disclaimer: I am somewhat new to the game. ;) :P So, call me pernickety, but I think the cost should double - or more - for the increased modifiers.... i.e. reading what it says on SRD, 100gp added to cost for each point of strength.... so my ogre with his 28str (+9mod) would only cause the bow to cost an extra 900gp? Again, if i'm reading/interpreting things wrong ok but if not, that sounds ummm... rather cheap for such modification? To just buy the bow is I think 100gp then add in the requirement that the bow is MW at +300 and then your bow for +9 mod becomes totaly 1300gp for totaly +1 enhancement bonus to hit and +9 strength bonus to damage, it does not give you the damage it only lets you take advantage of the strength you have already have had to pay for, I dont see any problem with it.
Moccanime 03-10-07, 07:32 AM	In my game I allow it, but you have to find some special materials for it. When the fighter in my game wanted a bow with a higher strength rating, I gave him a list of what he would need. Note that in my game, the characters always have to find the special materials, just having the money is not enough. e.g. Mithril and Adamatine is almost impossible to find in regions where it isn't mined. So when the adventure continued, he kept an eye out for usable materials. When they defeated a gorgon he cut the horns of it, when the visited Areanal he bought some darkwood and bronzewood, and when they encountered halfdragon dinosaurs in Xen'drik, he used his newly inwested ranks in proffesion (hunter) to salvage the sinews from the dead dinos. Then he brought the things to bowyer, payed the man and presto, one mighty greatbow with a +7 str rating.
Nezkrul 03-10-07, 11:30 AM	/sigh Ok, RAW there is no max, and the entry for making does not mention needing any magic to do so. So requiring it is entirely a houserule, and limiting the bonus to a max is also entirely a houserule. To the OP: no there is no max, they only printed the +4 due to space limitations on the table. It is also not likely you will find a bow on a weapon store's shelf that has a bonus higher than +4; you would probably have to requisition its creation.
Bhaal006 03-10-07, 11:43 AM	I my DM had me find special materials as well, that method is a little more fun and it didn't cost me as much because i crafted it myself, but yeah there's no limit and requiring magic seems kind of lame.
Someone 03-10-07, 12:31 PM	No, the price isn't to low, because for 0 gp extra, a thrown weapon has a instantly variable "pull" to precisely your Str bonus every time you use one. [/wiseguy] As an aside, technically the basic composite bow is a +0 pull, so if you have a Str penalty, you take an additional -2 to hit as you can't use it properly (can't pull it back all the way, etc.)
Kursk 03-10-07, 12:53 PM	Nothing in the RAW except cost per +. At some point you'd have the bow made of metal and probably the "string" too. So, +15 would even be possible by RAW. Make a cool non-magic weapon if you had the Str...