Confused about weapons with Reach, Threatened Squares and AoO [Archive] - Wizards Community

Confused about weapons with Reach, Threatened Squares and AoO [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
eagleye
11-22-05, 08:12 AM Could someone please be so kind as to explain me how this just works? For instance a human fighter wielding a spear. He has a reach of 10' and thus can attack enemies 10' away, but not enemies close to him. I can understand that much.

Now how about threatened squares and AoO. Does this mean that any creature comming withing 10' of the fighter provokes an AoO? But it is still possible for a creature to come within 5' range of the fighter right?
Thorak
11-22-05, 08:17 AM You provoke an AoO for leaving a threatened square. With a reach weapon, you threaten two squares away, but not adjacent squares. So they don't provoke an AoO for entering the threatened squares you have at 10', but if they try to leave any of them, for instance, to close to an adjacent square and hit you, that does provoke an AoO. It's still possible for a creature to close to 5', but without extenuating circumstances, they're going to eat an AoO on the way.
eagleye
11-22-05, 08:23 AM Thanks for the clean and decent reply. I now understand better the whole deal about the Spiked Chain. A person who masters its techique gets an AoO when someone gets close to him, and can continue to fight with it when the enemy is within 5'.

Am I correct to say that an oponnent who is standing next to a person fighting with a Spiked Chain, and then runs away from him, provokes two AoO, if the wielder would be able to take the second one (through a feat for instance). One for leaving the threatend square at 5' and one for leaving the threatend square at 10'?
pres_man
11-22-05, 10:02 AM Am I correct to say that an oponnent who is standing next to a person fighting with a Spiked Chain, and then runs away from him, provokes two AoO, if the wielder would be able to take the second one (through a feat for instance). One for leaving the threatend square at 5' and one for leaving the threatend square at 10'?
That is not correct, though I have seen people do it from time to time. Here is the relevant rules from the SRD.
Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent.
So even if you decided to go in a circle around your foe, they would only be able to take one attack of opportunity for the entire movement.
eagleye
11-22-05, 10:09 AM Do they also provoke an AoO if they take a 5'-step out of the threadened area?
pres_man
11-22-05, 10:28 AM 5' step (adjustment) never provokes an attack of opportunity, that is the special rule for the 5' step.
Thorak
11-22-05, 10:50 AM A 5' step is one of those extenuating circumstances I referred to. They can also use the Spring Attack feat to close without an AoO; you don't provoke movement-related AoOs from your target, so you can duck right through their threatened squares, smack them from an adjacent square, then finish with moving around within their adjacent squares. There are others, as well.

Reach weapons aren't going to render you invincible, and they will require more tactical planning. There will be times when you'll want to Ready an action, in case someone uses those extenuating circumstances. There will be times when you'll want to just hit the guy who's standing in your threatened squares once, then use a full move to walk away, so he can't 5' step next to you next round. And so on. It's more complicated, but they also give you a great deal more options in combat.
Plothos
11-22-05, 11:58 AM So even if you decided to go in a circle around your foe, they would only be able to take one attack of opportunity for the entire movement.This is correct, but one has to be careful, because of the way the withdraw action works. Withdraw precludes AoO's from moving out of the square you started in, but if the second square you leave is also threatened by someone who threatened the first square, he'll still get an AoO. One way you might try to interpret why is that each time you leave any square you provoke an AoO, and withdraw only eliminates this for the first one. I suspect that's where people are getting the impression that moving around in a circle could provoke mulitple AoO's. In return, I'd point out the quote you cite, and also the fact that moving past one enemy requires only one tumble roll. This suggests another interpretation of the withdraw action: when you withdraw, the first few steps are as cautious and non-guard-down-y as a 5' step, and then afterwards you move as normal, provoking single AoO's from each enemy that threatens any one of the squares you subsequently vacate. Alternatively, withdraw just is a 5' step followed by a normal double movement (minus those 5' worth of moving).
pres_man
11-22-05, 06:15 PM I'm not sure I like that way of stating the withdraw action. Perhaps a better way would be to say the first square (the one you start out in) is not treated as threatened for AoO when you use the withdraw action.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
eagleye 11-22-05, 08:12 AM	Could someone please be so kind as to explain me how this just works? For instance a human fighter wielding a spear. He has a reach of 10' and thus can attack enemies 10' away, but not enemies close to him. I can understand that much. Now how about threatened squares and AoO. Does this mean that any creature comming withing 10' of the fighter provokes an AoO? But it is still possible for a creature to come within 5' range of the fighter right?
Thorak 11-22-05, 08:17 AM	You provoke an AoO for leaving a threatened square. With a reach weapon, you threaten two squares away, but not adjacent squares. So they don't provoke an AoO for entering the threatened squares you have at 10', but if they try to leave any of them, for instance, to close to an adjacent square and hit you, that does provoke an AoO. It's still possible for a creature to close to 5', but without extenuating circumstances, they're going to eat an AoO on the way.
eagleye 11-22-05, 08:23 AM	Thanks for the clean and decent reply. I now understand better the whole deal about the Spiked Chain. A person who masters its techique gets an AoO when someone gets close to him, and can continue to fight with it when the enemy is within 5'. Am I correct to say that an oponnent who is standing next to a person fighting with a Spiked Chain, and then runs away from him, provokes two AoO, if the wielder would be able to take the second one (through a feat for instance). One for leaving the threatend square at 5' and one for leaving the threatend square at 10'?
pres_man 11-22-05, 10:02 AM	Am I correct to say that an oponnent who is standing next to a person fighting with a Spiked Chain, and then runs away from him, provokes two AoO, if the wielder would be able to take the second one (through a feat for instance). One for leaving the threatend square at 5' and one for leaving the threatend square at 10'? That is not correct, though I have seen people do it from time to time. Here is the relevant rules from the SRD. Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn’t count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. So even if you decided to go in a circle around your foe, they would only be able to take one attack of opportunity for the entire movement.
eagleye 11-22-05, 10:09 AM	Do they also provoke an AoO if they take a 5'-step out of the threadened area?
pres_man 11-22-05, 10:28 AM	5' step (adjustment) never provokes an attack of opportunity, that is the special rule for the 5' step.
Thorak 11-22-05, 10:50 AM	A 5' step is one of those extenuating circumstances I referred to. They can also use the Spring Attack feat to close without an AoO; you don't provoke movement-related AoOs from your target, so you can duck right through their threatened squares, smack them from an adjacent square, then finish with moving around within their adjacent squares. There are others, as well. Reach weapons aren't going to render you invincible, and they will require more tactical planning. There will be times when you'll want to Ready an action, in case someone uses those extenuating circumstances. There will be times when you'll want to just hit the guy who's standing in your threatened squares once, then use a full move to walk away, so he can't 5' step next to you next round. And so on. It's more complicated, but they also give you a great deal more options in combat.
Plothos 11-22-05, 11:58 AM	So even if you decided to go in a circle around your foe, they would only be able to take one attack of opportunity for the entire movement.This is correct, but one has to be careful, because of the way the withdraw action works. Withdraw precludes AoO's from moving out of the square you started in, but if the second square you leave is also threatened by someone who threatened the first square, he'll still get an AoO. One way you might try to interpret why is that each time you leave any square you provoke an AoO, and withdraw only eliminates this for the first one. I suspect that's where people are getting the impression that moving around in a circle could provoke mulitple AoO's. In return, I'd point out the quote you cite, and also the fact that moving past one enemy requires only one tumble roll. This suggests another interpretation of the withdraw action: when you withdraw, the first few steps are as cautious and non-guard-down-y as a 5' step, and then afterwards you move as normal, provoking single AoO's from each enemy that threatens any one of the squares you subsequently vacate. Alternatively, withdraw just is a 5' step followed by a normal double movement (minus those 5' worth of moving).
pres_man 11-22-05, 06:15 PM	I'm not sure I like that way of stating the withdraw action. Perhaps a better way would be to say the first square (the one you start out in) is not treated as threatened for AoO when you use the withdraw action.