Post/Author/DateTime	Post
orangevoodoo 08-07-06, 08:57 PM	Ok, I was looking into the mighty swordbow from Races of the Wild. It looks great, +1 bow or sword, change weapon as a free action. I can even strap on a buckler with no problem what-so-ever. But I looked at the cost and got very confused. The cost of a +1 bow and +1 sword is 4,600 + cost of the normal weapons, Elvencrafting to combine a bow and a staff is only 300 gp more, but to make a "swordbow" costs 1,700 more than this figure. That's right, 6,690 for a +1 swordbow, instead of the 4,900+change I'd expect. The item isn't using the rules for "multiple abilities in one slot" which is +50% to the smaller of the bonuses, not to both. But according to the text, that isn't right either. It says it would cost double normal cost to upgrade the weapon, as two weapons are being upgraded. eg: +8,000 to make a +2 swordbow. As this number isn't increased by 50%, something is missing in the calculations. I would assume the book is adding the cost of "some spell" to produce the 2,000 increase (once you remove the elvencraft ability), which would be the cost for a 1st level spell as a use activated item. But the only spell required is Shrink Item, which is level 3. If anyone knows of the reason behind this added cost, I'd love to hear it. Much thanks.
Arvagor 08-07-06, 10:49 PM	The swordbow has nothing to do with being an elvencraft bow; the former magically changes form, while the latter simply has two different weapon functions by virtue of its physical construction. I'm not a crafter, but the crafting cost looks correct. - Masterwork longsword = 315 - Masterwork longbow = 375 - Enchant one of the weapons to +1 = 2000 - "Embed" the other weapon in the first with shrink item = 1000 (your +50%?) Total = 3690 I'd write it off as, the MIC rules not being able to effectively describe what's actually being done. And we all know magic item prices are never hard and fast ;)
orangevoodoo 08-08-06, 11:00 AM	I'm not a crafter, but the crafting cost looks correct. - Masterwork longsword = 315 - Masterwork longbow = 375 - Enchant one of the weapons to +1 = 2000 - "Embed" the other weapon in the first with shrink item = 1000 (your +50%?) Total = 3690 Alas, the price of the weapon is 6,690gp. Nearly twice what you came up with. And yes, I do agree that some items have unusually high costs when they are "unusually effective," eg: teleport. But I just don't understand why a sword in a bow warrants +2,000gp, while a staff in a bow warrants +300gp. And yes, I do understand that one is magical and one isn't, the only spell listed is shrink item, which would cost +15,000gp to add to an item. And if you are curious, the +50% cost rule is for when you place two enchantments in a single slot, or when you place an enchantment in a slot that it normally doesn't belong in. Eg: Boots of Striding and Springing cost more than Boots of Striding And Boots of Springing individually (I know the individuals aren't in 3.5, but you can build them to verify cost.) Striding costs 2,000gp (1st level spell, continual use), springing costs 2,500gp (+5 to a skill) and since you are combining the items you add 50% to the cheaper enchantment, giving 5,500gp, which is the cost of Boots of Striding and Springing. Eg2: Boots of Elvenkind cost 2,500gp (+5 to a skill), but the Silent upgrade to armor costs 3,750gp. This is the +50% cost because armor isn't where Silence goes according to the Body Slot Affinity table. As a dedicated crafter character who enjoys making items, I've found the formulas to be fairly cleaned up, with a few exceptions that I usually can understand. I'm just having trouble understanding this one.
risner 08-09-06, 04:10 PM	Elvencrafting to combine a bow and a staff is only 300 gp more, but to make a "swordbow" costs 1,700 more than this figure. That's right, 6,690 for a +1 swordbow, instead of the 4,900+change I'd expect. They should have (but didn't) come out and say the Swordbow enhancement costs 2,000 gp. It does cost 2,000 gp, as you can see below: Longbow/Longsword (300+75+300+15)+2,000+1*1*2,000+1*1*2,00 0 = 6,690 gp Rapier/Shortbow (300+20+300+30)+2,000+1*1*2,000+1*1*2,00 0 = 6,650 gp Greatsword/Composite Longbow +4 STR (300+50+300+500)+2,000+1*1*2,000+1*1*2,0 00 = 7,150 gp