Post/Author/DateTime	Post
masterofmayhem 06-27-05, 10:50 AM	I'm a little confused as to how constrict works . . . Do you do constrict damage every time you win a grapple check, or only when puposely trying to damage an opponent with grapple? Also, if you make a grapple check to damage someone, do you do normal grapple damage (natural attack damage) and constrict damage? Also, what is the damage for constrict? Twice your strength modifier? :confused: Thanks in advance for helping. :) Constrict (Ex): A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, after making a successful grapple check. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry. If the creature also has the improved grab ability it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab.
tarkin 06-27-05, 11:03 AM	1) You only do the Constrict Damage when you are attempting to constrict them. Before you can do that you must first succesfully grapple them, a grapple check that does not do damage. 2) When you are constricting you are not using the natural weapons so you can't do them. It is just the constriction damage. (Also note, normal grappling damge is NOT good. You can't just use natural weapons in a grapple. There are large penalties for doing things like that.) 3) I would rule you get strength x 1.5, just as if you were using a two handed weapon. Strength x 2 makes zero sense to me - where did you get that value?
masterofmayhem 06-27-05, 11:23 AM	Ah, perfect, exactly the info I needed. Thanks for the speedy reply, Tarkin. :) As to the two times strength damage . . . that was from me waking up too early in the morning. :embarrass :D Thanks again. :)
Surreal 06-27-05, 11:43 AM	Just to add to the confusion, I remember reading a couple monster entries that manage to do both grapple and constrict damage. I'll see if I can come back with some references later.
Colmarr 06-27-05, 04:39 PM	In terms of damage die type, the Constrictor snake (medium) uses 1d3. The Giant constrictor snake (Huge) uses 1d8. Those die types match IIRC the unarmed damage die for creatures of those sizes. Constrict therefore doesn't change the die size for a grapple, merely turns it into lethal (as opposed the nonlethal) damage. In relation to strength bonuses, both the Constrictor Snake and the Giant Constrictor Snake from the MM deal 1.5 x Str , so that seems to be the way to go.
tiercel 06-27-05, 07:52 PM	Most critters with Constrict also have Improved Grab. Improved Grab lets you do the damage of the grabbing weapon when you win a grapple check, and constrict adds the constrict damage onto that. Example: Assassin Vine Attack: Slam +7 melee (1d6+7) Special Attacks: Constrict 1d6+7, entangle, improved grab So the assassin vine rolls to hit you, and tags you. You take 1d6+7 damage from its slam attack, and have to make an opposed grapple check due to its improved grab. (You don't get an AoO.) If you lose, you're grappled. Assuming you don't break the grapple by the vine's next turn, it can make another grapple check on its turn to damage you. If it wins that check, it does its slam damage because it has improved grab, and it does constrict damage as well (so, effectively double damage: 2d6+14). Nasty. (And the assassin vine is CR 3!)
Colmarr 06-27-05, 09:31 PM	Tiercel is partly correct and partly wrong. Improved Grab only applies on the turn the creature initiates the grapple. From the Assassin Vine: Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an assassin vine must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict. All Improved Grab allows the vine to do is make a grapple check after a successful slam. In later rounds, the vine is not making slam attacks and cannot deal slam damage. So: Round 1. Vine slams for 1d6+7 and constricts for 1d6+7. Establishes hold. Round 2. Vine constricts for 1d6+7.