Conunundrum from play. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Conunundrum from play. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
tauaru
11-28-07, 02:23 AM Here is the situation:

One opponent is stunned for the next couple of rounds. We want to take him alive. I have a pair of Masterwork Manacles in my Heward's Handy Haversack with a Lock. It is a Move Action to get the Manacles (the lock is on them already that has been established already in game) out of the haversack.

Now is where it gets tricky...

To bind a stunned opponent with Manacles...Move Action? Standard Action?

How would a spellcaster be gagged (assume no access to silence)?
blade265
11-28-07, 02:59 AM IMO it would be a move action to bind the opponent and a standard action to lock the lock assuming using a key to lock it. As for gagging a spellcaster, tricky, as most of the spells used have a verbal component using a gag would be enough but talk to your DM.
zeratulcraft
11-28-07, 03:40 AM Remove their tongue and use Detect Thoughts to interrogate them later.
ibayboy
11-28-07, 04:21 AM Remove their tongue and use Detect Thoughts to interrogate them later.

Lol. Sounds like someone has been playing too much Call of Cthulhu.
Tony Vargas
11-28-07, 09:28 PM Binding a character with ropes takes one minute. I'd assume that manacles would take less time. I'd go with at least a full round action that provokes an AoO, plus a standard action to affix the lock.

Stunned characters are not helpless. The can't take actions, lose thier DEX Bonus to AC, and suffer an AC penalty, but they aren't helpless. You can't CdG them, for instance, and you probably shouldn't be able to bind them. Pinning a victim would be a good first step to binding them.

Pinning also allows you to keep the victim from speaking. Putting a gag on a helpless subject would be little more than tying a knot. Even tying a knot, though is a full round action (see Use Rope).
jaelis
11-28-07, 09:58 PM I like Tony's suggestion.

First grapple and pin the target. That's not automatic, since a stunned character can still make defensive grapple checks. (Once pinned though, he could not try to escape.)

Then another character could attach the manacles as a full round action. Applying a gag would be another full round action.
tyrecian
11-28-07, 10:58 PM you thought about using subdual to knock this guy out?

Pin is a good option, although to further the issue, you also need to strip the enemy naked, so that any silent still spells he has wont be accessible (depending on level, this guy could just TP away if he has enough metamagics)...

Cutting out tongue and ripping out eyeballs are good options, like someone earlier suggested for nerfing a caster. if you are good of course, you better know this guy is both evil and guilty, and that you might have to put em back later. Do you have access to regenerate?

It can be tricky to keep a prisoner if the GM has already figured a way for the guy to get out easily (i.e. a pin and manacles are not going to be much use against someone with a freedom of Movement on, or a free action ring).

Remember also to tie his feet up so he cannot run, best to tie the ankles and the neck with the same rope (often referred to as hog-tie) so that he doesnt have much wiggle room.

It depends on how ruthless you are, and how ruthless your enemy is. If he is a powerful single line casting class, take no chances, the lives you save might be far greater than the pain you cause him.

A portable hole is also a nice way to store enemies (not as common now that the HHH has been around).
1 ton ghost
11-30-07, 12:06 PM -Full Rnd. Action to manacle i think. thought the lock was included in its construction as having 1 w/out kinda' defeats the purpose.
-grapple then pin i guess. even tased (stunned) criminals can't be cuffed terribly easilly. gag on pin check
-ask DM about specific dmg. normally, you can't in normal combat, but a helpless and bound character is less of a worry if you can hobble him (1/2 move?), break a few digits (hamper spellcasting), etc.
-head bag. "they're chalked full of heady goodness." -apu. give them the abu ghraib treatment, especially casters. if he can't see, can't target.
-sleep dep. this is a nasty trick i like to do vs. casters. if he can't get his full 8 hours, then casting isn't an issue. even epics need to sleep and a Summon Monster I sent wandering into camp counts as an encounter and further adds another +1hr to rest/meditation for magi. clerics, not so much. this will negate natural healing as well.
-drow sleep poison. big fan, price is right. good vs. low Fort types always and it's a bit more merciful in the long run.
-sap or truncheon (1-8 +Str [nonlethal], Cityscape)
Tony Vargas
11-30-07, 01:23 PM thought the lock was included in its construction as having 1 w/out kinda' defeats the purpose.
You do pay for the lock sepparately. A person manacled w/o a lock still has to make an escape artist check to get free, but anyone else can free him. With a lock, only someone with a key or able to pick (or, obviously, destroy) the lock can free the captive.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
tauaru 11-28-07, 02:23 AM	Here is the situation: One opponent is stunned for the next couple of rounds. We want to take him alive. I have a pair of Masterwork Manacles in my Heward's Handy Haversack with a Lock. It is a Move Action to get the Manacles (the lock is on them already that has been established already in game) out of the haversack. Now is where it gets tricky... To bind a stunned opponent with Manacles...Move Action? Standard Action? How would a spellcaster be gagged (assume no access to silence)?
blade265 11-28-07, 02:59 AM	IMO it would be a move action to bind the opponent and a standard action to lock the lock assuming using a key to lock it. As for gagging a spellcaster, tricky, as most of the spells used have a verbal component using a gag would be enough but talk to your DM.
zeratulcraft 11-28-07, 03:40 AM	Remove their tongue and use Detect Thoughts to interrogate them later.
ibayboy 11-28-07, 04:21 AM	Remove their tongue and use Detect Thoughts to interrogate them later. Lol. Sounds like someone has been playing too much Call of Cthulhu.
Tony Vargas 11-28-07, 09:28 PM	Binding a character with ropes takes one minute. I'd assume that manacles would take less time. I'd go with at least a full round action that provokes an AoO, plus a standard action to affix the lock. Stunned characters are not helpless. The can't take actions, lose thier DEX Bonus to AC, and suffer an AC penalty, but they aren't helpless. You can't CdG them, for instance, and you probably shouldn't be able to bind them. Pinning a victim would be a good first step to binding them. Pinning also allows you to keep the victim from speaking. Putting a gag on a helpless subject would be little more than tying a knot. Even tying a knot, though is a full round action (see Use Rope).
jaelis 11-28-07, 09:58 PM	I like Tony's suggestion. First grapple and pin the target. That's not automatic, since a stunned character can still make defensive grapple checks. (Once pinned though, he could not try to escape.) Then another character could attach the manacles as a full round action. Applying a gag would be another full round action.
tyrecian 11-28-07, 10:58 PM	you thought about using subdual to knock this guy out? Pin is a good option, although to further the issue, you also need to strip the enemy naked, so that any silent still spells he has wont be accessible (depending on level, this guy could just TP away if he has enough metamagics)... Cutting out tongue and ripping out eyeballs are good options, like someone earlier suggested for nerfing a caster. if you are good of course, you better know this guy is both evil and guilty, and that you might have to put em back later. Do you have access to regenerate? It can be tricky to keep a prisoner if the GM has already figured a way for the guy to get out easily (i.e. a pin and manacles are not going to be much use against someone with a freedom of Movement on, or a free action ring). Remember also to tie his feet up so he cannot run, best to tie the ankles and the neck with the same rope (often referred to as hog-tie) so that he doesnt have much wiggle room. It depends on how ruthless you are, and how ruthless your enemy is. If he is a powerful single line casting class, take no chances, the lives you save might be far greater than the pain you cause him. A portable hole is also a nice way to store enemies (not as common now that the HHH has been around).
1 ton ghost 11-30-07, 12:06 PM	-Full Rnd. Action to manacle i think. thought the lock was included in its construction as having 1 w/out kinda' defeats the purpose. -grapple then pin i guess. even tased (stunned) criminals can't be cuffed terribly easilly. gag on pin check -ask DM about specific dmg. normally, you can't in normal combat, but a helpless and bound character is less of a worry if you can hobble him (1/2 move?), break a few digits (hamper spellcasting), etc. -head bag. "they're chalked full of heady goodness." -apu. give them the abu ghraib treatment, especially casters. if he can't see, can't target. -sleep dep. this is a nasty trick i like to do vs. casters. if he can't get his full 8 hours, then casting isn't an issue. even epics need to sleep and a Summon Monster I sent wandering into camp counts as an encounter and further adds another +1hr to rest/meditation for magi. clerics, not so much. this will negate natural healing as well. -drow sleep poison. big fan, price is right. good vs. low Fort types always and it's a bit more merciful in the long run. -sap or truncheon (1-8 +Str [nonlethal], Cityscape)
Tony Vargas 11-30-07, 01:23 PM	thought the lock was included in its construction as having 1 w/out kinda' defeats the purpose. You do pay for the lock sepparately. A person manacled w/o a lock still has to make an escape artist check to get free, but anyone else can free him. With a lock, only someone with a key or able to pick (or, obviously, destroy) the lock can free the captive.