Converting Charges a day to at will [Archive] - Wizards Community

Converting Charges a day to at will [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
loganic1
02-05-08, 07:48 PM I had items like belt of battle, warlock's sceptor, eldritch admixture.

Each of them lets you expend charges to achieve an affect. The more you expend, the the better the affect.

My question is, since I can't find the rules for making an item that expends charges a day, is there any way for me to create a custom item that does the same thing at will? Preferably at maximum affect.

base and creation costs would be good
Rymosrac
02-05-08, 08:18 PM Belt of Battle + Unlimited charges per day = WTFBBQ

But to answer your question, no. There are rules for creating items that use a spell at will, but none of the items you listed use a spell, AFAIK.
loganic1
02-05-08, 10:28 PM But that's the point, it's not unlimited charges. There's a fine difference.
I would guess that the limitation would be that it could only be used once per turn. That would mean a free full round action per turn. Doesn't it take a free action to activate it?

Alternatively, something I know I can make is a staff of Time stop.
For 50 charges, it only costs about 112k, I can make it "at will" for 320k.
(not exact amounts, I just cant remember them exactly), but I was hoping for something cheaper which was why I was looking at Belt of Battle.

Technically it's not a charge spell, but I still think that giving it the continous ability would mean that my world would be permanent frozen upon wielding it. Either that or DM would rule continuous in this case implies once per round.
Jaxgaret
02-06-08, 12:03 AM For a rough estimate of maximum price, multiply by (100/# of uses per day) for unlimited use.

This would make an unlimited-use full-round action Belt of Battle cost 400,000 gp. I would set that as the upper limit on the cost of the item.
groveborn
02-06-08, 12:19 AM For a rough estimate of maximum price, multiply by (100/# of uses per day) for unlimited use.

This would make an unlimited-use full-round action Belt of Battle cost 400,000 gp. I would set that as the upper limit on the cost of the item.

Actually, close, but no. That would be for items that have 50 charges. For items with daily charges, things aren't so cut and dry.

For things that cast a spell when deciding on price, you take the number of charges divided by 5 to get something to multiply to the total cost. For things that don't replicate spells, the item generally has a price based on its usefulness, and not its abilities. I'd say multiply it by 5 to get an approximate value. More or less depending on how useful it would be.

At the same time, if this item isn't so overpowering as to be epic to begin with (I don't really know what it is), then simply make it an always on effect. Why waste time on activating it?
Rymosrac
02-06-08, 12:43 AM An extra full-round action every turn, always? Quite possibly the most sickeningly powerful ability or item I've ever seen. The cost would have to be absurdly expensive, even for epic-level carachters.
narack
02-06-08, 07:52 AM for unlimited you have to consider having 100 charges. So get the base item before charge adjustment;

Charge adjustment : Cost / (5/number of charge)

if the item you want unlimited is X/day and want unlimited instead base use this formula to readjust the price.

((5/Actual Times per day) * Actual item cost) / 0.05
*this is actually a reverse formula to go back to base price and then get the unlimited

Constant effect can also be good.

For spells measure in round :
(Spell level x caster level x 2000) * 4

For spells measure of 1min/level :
(Spell level x caster level x 2000) * 2

For spells measure of 10min/level :
(Spell level x caster level x 2000) * 1.5

for spells measure of 24 hours
(Spell level x caster level x 2000) / 2
Rymosrac
02-06-08, 02:45 PM Here's the problem, though: Many items - the belt of battle included - Do not duplicate a spell. They have their own unique effect, and no rules or guidelines exist for creating items like that, afaik.
Jaxgaret
02-06-08, 06:01 PM Actually, close, but no. That would be for items that have 50 charges. For items with daily charges, things aren't so cut and dry.

Yeah, I know.

But it's as close as the rules will get to a suggestion about how to price such a thing, AFAICT.

if this item isn't so overpowering as to be epic to begin with (I don't really know what it is), then simply make it an always on effect. Why waste time on activating it?

400,000 gp is expensive enough that only Epic characters will be able to afford it. If it's a true Epic item, you have to add in the 10x factor and you get the final Epic item cost: 4,000,000 gp.

I would say that that is a fair price for such a powerful item, actually.
loganic1
02-07-08, 04:31 AM Ok, so at will may be a bit excessive.

Oddly enough, BoB uses haste to make it.

I'm a character that focuses on burst damage, and have been trying to extend/maximize it.

Belt of battle works such that it has 3 charges a day, one charge uses, allows for an additional movement action, 2 charges for an additional standard action and 3 charges for a full round attack action.

I realized in my last session that it's actually quite useful to have an additional move action, and then uses the rest of my round to execute a full attack.

So rather than have neigh infinite charges, any idea what the pricing guide would be to increase the charges from 3 to 9/10/12 (any one of them). Rules would be nice so I could scale it up or down based on affordability.

And 400,000 sounds obscene.
A 50 charge staff of Timestop (9*17*750) 114 750
At will would be 306 000

I assumed they would stack, in the sense I would get one free Full round plus Time stop, which wouldn't justify the cost, but if I can get an multiple rounds per turn from BoB, it would.
That would mean, with an upgraded BoB, I could activate one free round per round of time stop (up till my maximum charges). It might since they are based off of different spells.
narack
02-07-08, 08:29 AM Ok, so at will may be a bit excessive.

Oddly enough, BoB uses haste to make it.

I'm a character that focuses on burst damage, and have been trying to extend/maximize it.

Belt of battle works such that it has 3 charges a day, one charge uses, allows for an additional movement action, 2 charges for an additional standard action and 3 charges for a full round attack action.

I realized in my last session that it's actually quite useful to have an additional move action, and then uses the rest of my round to execute a full attack.

So rather than have neigh infinite charges, any idea what the pricing guide would be to increase the charges from 3 to 9/10/12 (any one of them). Rules would be nice so I could scale it up or down based on affordability.

And 400,000 sounds obscene.
A 50 charge staff of Timestop (9*17*750) 114 750
At will would be 306 000

I assumed they would stack, in the sense I would get one free Full round plus Time stop, which wouldn't justify the cost, but if I can get an multiple rounds per turn from BoB, it would.
That would mean, with an upgraded BoB, I could activate one free round per round of time stop (up till my maximum charges). It might since they are based off of different spells.

use that
((5/Actual Times per day) * Actual item cost) / (5 / New number of charge per day)

the actual item already include the magic effect price.
I don't have my MIC with me and couldn't foundo n the web the price of the item but i guess it's around 30,000

so that would be for 9 charges instead
((5/3)*30000) / (5/9)
(1.66 * 30000) / 0.55
49800 / 0.55 = 90,500 gp
a bit more than triple the price i used for triple number of charges.

12 charges (4 times more should end up 120k + or -)
((5/3)*30000) / (5/12)
(1.66 * 30000) / 0.42
49800 / 0.42 = 118,500 gp
Close to 4 times the price.

BUY A BELT OF BATTLE OF 12 CHARGE (4 TIMES THE ORIGINAL AMAAAAAZING) AND SAVE 1.25%

:D
loganic1
02-07-08, 02:57 PM I have absolutely no clue where you got that formula from, so I simplified it.
The cost for BoB is actually only 12k

Your long formula simplifies to
Price * (new charges/old charges)

You lost that 1.25% from bad rounding XD
(5/3)*30000 is actually 50000, which multiplies by 9/5 is 90k XD

Here's what I wish I could do, and assume that it's charges x4k, so my 12 charges would cost only 48k, but realistically, everything WotC does with magic items is basic exponential. Not even fancy ones, just squares.

So, I'm going to assume that it's more like charges squared times something
If it was 3 charges squared, then the something comes out to be around 1,333 gp. If I up that to 12 charges, that would amount to 192,000.

Even if it was considered 1 charge(for the maximum ability), then the coefficient would be 12000, and getting 4 charges out of it would still cost me 192000.

I just wanted to know if that was reasonable, or if anyone found fault with that?

EDIT: Why not simply buy multiple belts of battle and just pay double for body slots. Who needs one powerful one when you can buy 15 for the same effect?
narack
02-08-08, 07:33 AM I have absolutely no clue where you got that formula from, so I simplified it.
The cost for BoB is actually only 12k

Your long formula simplifies to
Price * (new charges/old charges)

You lost that 1.25% from bad rounding XD
(5/3)*30000 is actually 50000, which multiplies by 9/5 is 90k XD

Here's what I wish I could do, and assume that it's charges x4k, so my 12 charges would cost only 48k, but realistically, everything WotC does with magic items is basic exponential. Not even fancy ones, just squares.

So, I'm going to assume that it's more like charges squared times something
If it was 3 charges squared, then the something comes out to be around 1,333 gp. If I up that to 12 charges, that would amount to 192,000.

Even if it was considered 1 charge(for the maximum ability), then the coefficient would be 12000, and getting 4 charges out of it would still cost me 192000.

I just wanted to know if that was reasonable, or if anyone found fault with that?

EDIT: Why not simply buy multiple belts of battle and just pay double for body slots. Who needs one powerful one when you can buy 15 for the same effect?

I have put the formula complete based on the SRD magic item creation rules. you just have to inverse the calculation.

Since the charge calculation is the last thing and it's : Price/ (5/ charge per day) = final price
inverse it's final price * (5/charge per day) = price and use back the normal formula to get back to the new charge calculation

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
loganic1 02-05-08, 07:48 PM	I had items like belt of battle, warlock's sceptor, eldritch admixture. Each of them lets you expend charges to achieve an affect. The more you expend, the the better the affect. My question is, since I can't find the rules for making an item that expends charges a day, is there any way for me to create a custom item that does the same thing at will? Preferably at maximum affect. base and creation costs would be good
Rymosrac 02-05-08, 08:18 PM	Belt of Battle + Unlimited charges per day = WTFBBQ But to answer your question, no. There are rules for creating items that use a spell at will, but none of the items you listed use a spell, AFAIK.
loganic1 02-05-08, 10:28 PM	But that's the point, it's not unlimited charges. There's a fine difference. I would guess that the limitation would be that it could only be used once per turn. That would mean a free full round action per turn. Doesn't it take a free action to activate it? Alternatively, something I know I can make is a staff of Time stop. For 50 charges, it only costs about 112k, I can make it "at will" for 320k. (not exact amounts, I just cant remember them exactly), but I was hoping for something cheaper which was why I was looking at Belt of Battle. Technically it's not a charge spell, but I still think that giving it the continous ability would mean that my world would be permanent frozen upon wielding it. Either that or DM would rule continuous in this case implies once per round.
Jaxgaret 02-06-08, 12:03 AM	For a rough estimate of maximum price, multiply by (100/# of uses per day) for unlimited use. This would make an unlimited-use full-round action Belt of Battle cost 400,000 gp. I would set that as the upper limit on the cost of the item.
groveborn 02-06-08, 12:19 AM	For a rough estimate of maximum price, multiply by (100/# of uses per day) for unlimited use. This would make an unlimited-use full-round action Belt of Battle cost 400,000 gp. I would set that as the upper limit on the cost of the item. Actually, close, but no. That would be for items that have 50 charges. For items with daily charges, things aren't so cut and dry. For things that cast a spell when deciding on price, you take the number of charges divided by 5 to get something to multiply to the total cost. For things that don't replicate spells, the item generally has a price based on its usefulness, and not its abilities. I'd say multiply it by 5 to get an approximate value. More or less depending on how useful it would be. At the same time, if this item isn't so overpowering as to be epic to begin with (I don't really know what it is), then simply make it an always on effect. Why waste time on activating it?
Rymosrac 02-06-08, 12:43 AM	An extra full-round action every turn, always? Quite possibly the most sickeningly powerful ability or item I've ever seen. The cost would have to be absurdly expensive, even for epic-level carachters.
narack 02-06-08, 07:52 AM	for unlimited you have to consider having 100 charges. So get the base item before charge adjustment; Charge adjustment : Cost / (5/number of charge) if the item you want unlimited is X/day and want unlimited instead base use this formula to readjust the price. ((5/Actual Times per day) * Actual item cost) / 0.05 this is actually a reverse formula to go back to base price and then get the unlimited Constant effect can also be good. For spells measure in round : (Spell level x caster level x 2000) 4 For spells measure of 1min/level : (Spell level x caster level x 2000) * 2 For spells measure of 10min/level : (Spell level x caster level x 2000) * 1.5 for spells measure of 24 hours (Spell level x caster level x 2000) / 2
Rymosrac 02-06-08, 02:45 PM	Here's the problem, though: Many items - the belt of battle included - Do not duplicate a spell. They have their own unique effect, and no rules or guidelines exist for creating items like that, afaik.
Jaxgaret 02-06-08, 06:01 PM	Actually, close, but no. That would be for items that have 50 charges. For items with daily charges, things aren't so cut and dry. Yeah, I know. But it's as close as the rules will get to a suggestion about how to price such a thing, AFAICT. if this item isn't so overpowering as to be epic to begin with (I don't really know what it is), then simply make it an always on effect. Why waste time on activating it? 400,000 gp is expensive enough that only Epic characters will be able to afford it. If it's a true Epic item, you have to add in the 10x factor and you get the final Epic item cost: 4,000,000 gp. I would say that that is a fair price for such a powerful item, actually.
loganic1 02-07-08, 04:31 AM	Ok, so at will may be a bit excessive. Oddly enough, BoB uses haste to make it. I'm a character that focuses on burst damage, and have been trying to extend/maximize it. Belt of battle works such that it has 3 charges a day, one charge uses, allows for an additional movement action, 2 charges for an additional standard action and 3 charges for a full round attack action. I realized in my last session that it's actually quite useful to have an additional move action, and then uses the rest of my round to execute a full attack. So rather than have neigh infinite charges, any idea what the pricing guide would be to increase the charges from 3 to 9/10/12 (any one of them). Rules would be nice so I could scale it up or down based on affordability. And 400,000 sounds obscene. A 50 charge staff of Timestop (917750) 114 750 At will would be 306 000 I assumed they would stack, in the sense I would get one free Full round plus Time stop, which wouldn't justify the cost, but if I can get an multiple rounds per turn from BoB, it would. That would mean, with an upgraded BoB, I could activate one free round per round of time stop (up till my maximum charges). It might since they are based off of different spells.
narack 02-07-08, 08:29 AM	Ok, so at will may be a bit excessive. Oddly enough, BoB uses haste to make it. I'm a character that focuses on burst damage, and have been trying to extend/maximize it. Belt of battle works such that it has 3 charges a day, one charge uses, allows for an additional movement action, 2 charges for an additional standard action and 3 charges for a full round attack action. I realized in my last session that it's actually quite useful to have an additional move action, and then uses the rest of my round to execute a full attack. So rather than have neigh infinite charges, any idea what the pricing guide would be to increase the charges from 3 to 9/10/12 (any one of them). Rules would be nice so I could scale it up or down based on affordability. And 400,000 sounds obscene. A 50 charge staff of Timestop (917750) 114 750 At will would be 306 000 I assumed they would stack, in the sense I would get one free Full round plus Time stop, which wouldn't justify the cost, but if I can get an multiple rounds per turn from BoB, it would. That would mean, with an upgraded BoB, I could activate one free round per round of time stop (up till my maximum charges). It might since they are based off of different spells. use that ((5/Actual Times per day) * Actual item cost) / (5 / New number of charge per day) the actual item already include the magic effect price. I don't have my MIC with me and couldn't foundo n the web the price of the item but i guess it's around 30,000 so that would be for 9 charges instead ((5/3)30000) / (5/9) (1.66 30000) / 0.55 49800 / 0.55 = 90,500 gp a bit more than triple the price i used for triple number of charges. 12 charges (4 times more should end up 120k + or -) ((5/3)30000) / (5/12) (1.66 30000) / 0.42 49800 / 0.42 = 118,500 gp Close to 4 times the price. BUY A BELT OF BATTLE OF 12 CHARGE (4 TIMES THE ORIGINAL AMAAAAAZING) AND SAVE 1.25% :D
loganic1 02-07-08, 02:57 PM	I have absolutely no clue where you got that formula from, so I simplified it. The cost for BoB is actually only 12k Your long formula simplifies to Price * (new charges/old charges) You lost that 1.25% from bad rounding XD (5/3)*30000 is actually 50000, which multiplies by 9/5 is 90k XD Here's what I wish I could do, and assume that it's charges x4k, so my 12 charges would cost only 48k, but realistically, everything WotC does with magic items is basic exponential. Not even fancy ones, just squares. So, I'm going to assume that it's more like charges squared times something If it was 3 charges squared, then the something comes out to be around 1,333 gp. If I up that to 12 charges, that would amount to 192,000. Even if it was considered 1 charge(for the maximum ability), then the coefficient would be 12000, and getting 4 charges out of it would still cost me 192000. I just wanted to know if that was reasonable, or if anyone found fault with that? EDIT: Why not simply buy multiple belts of battle and just pay double for body slots. Who needs one powerful one when you can buy 15 for the same effect?
narack 02-08-08, 07:33 AM	I have absolutely no clue where you got that formula from, so I simplified it. The cost for BoB is actually only 12k Your long formula simplifies to Price * (new charges/old charges) You lost that 1.25% from bad rounding XD (5/3)30000 is actually 50000, which multiplies by 9/5 is 90k XD Here's what I wish I could do, and assume that it's charges x4k, so my 12 charges would cost only 48k, but realistically, everything WotC does with magic items is basic exponential. Not even fancy ones, just squares. So, I'm going to assume that it's more like charges squared times something If it was 3 charges squared, then the something comes out to be around 1,333 gp. If I up that to 12 charges, that would amount to 192,000. Even if it was considered 1 charge(for the maximum ability), then the coefficient would be 12000, and getting 4 charges out of it would still cost me 192000. I just wanted to know if that was reasonable, or if anyone found fault with that? EDIT: Why not simply buy multiple belts of battle and just pay double for body slots. Who needs one powerful one when you can buy 15 for the same effect? I have put the formula complete based on the SRD magic item creation rules. you just have to inverse the calculation. Since the charge calculation is the last thing and it's : Price/ (5/ charge per day) = final price inverse it's final price (5/charge per day) = price and use back the normal formula to get back to the new charge calculation