Converting some cool low spells into constant items! Can someone help me with math?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Converting some cool low spells into constant items! Can someone help me with math?? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ryeookin
08-01-06, 08:17 PM Some low level constant items could be rather useful. Unfortunately I'm not near my DMG so I can only go off what I remember at the moment for what the cost would be.. Can I get some help with the math?

Item of "shield" (as per the first level arcane spell)
Cost: 16,000 (8k in materials)

formula:
(bonus squared X 1000)
+4 deflection bonus= 4*4*1000=16k

(not sure how to factor the shield spell absorbing magic missles into the price..)

Item of "protection from evil" (as per the first level arcane spell)
Cost: 8k+

This one is harder to calculate since it has so many powers..
formula:
(bonus squared X 1000)
+2 delection bonus= 2*2*1000=4k
+2 saves bonus= 2*2*1000=4k
protection from charm/domination cost ? *shrugs*

Any ideas here?
CryoSilver
08-01-06, 08:45 PM Calculate the price as though it were the Spell Immunity spell, which I believe is level 4; therefore, it adds 4*2,000*7=56,ooo to the cost, which may be excessive...
Dheran
08-01-06, 11:08 PM AC bonus (other) Bonus squared × 2,500 gp
If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2.

Shield ... provides a +4 shield bonus to AC.
So that gives you 4^2 x 2,500 x 2 = 80,000 g.p., and something extra for the ability to negate magic missile attacks. For 80,000 g.p., I'd throw that in for free -- but others might not be so generous; check with your DM.
SilentOne
08-01-06, 11:27 PM AC bonus (other) Bonus squared × 2,500 gp
If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2.

So that gives you 4^2 x 2,500 x 2 = 80,000 g.p., and something extra for the ability to negate magic missile attacks. For 80,000 g.p., I'd throw that in for free -- but others might not be so generous; check with your DM.

if you're going to use the AC formula instead of the normal spell formula (which you should in this situation) you don't need the x2 cost, because there is no duration to be had. 40k sounds.... alright.
Fallenangel359
08-01-06, 11:32 PM uhm, the cost for spells as constant items is 2000xcasterlevelxspelllevel

So a level 1 spell, such as shield, is 2000x1x1, or 2000 gold
a level 2 spell, cast by a wizard is 2000x2x3, or cast by a sorceror is 2000x2x4
It depends on who makes the item partially
Chikngizrd
08-02-06, 12:55 AM uhm, the cost for spells as constant items is 2000xcasterlevelxspelllevel

Not to be trite but, its fairly well acknowledged that if you use that formula in all instances of creating continuous items, you're in for a broken campaign quickly. Shield is but one hienous abuse of a phenominal effect to have all the time. Check the boards, there are lots of others.

The generally accepted fix is to charge by what the effect does. In this case, grants a +4 armor bonus (plus stops magic missles), so cost is determined as +4 armor.

Granted, its a houserule, you're welcome to use the aforementioned formula wholesale, but I'd recommend against it.
Finarin Panjoro
08-02-06, 10:05 AM Actually that's not even a house rule. It clearly states in the DMG that the best method of pricing an item is by comparing what the item does to items with similar abilities. The formula's are only fallback positions for when you can't find a comparable item.

MAGIC ITEM GOLD PIECE VALUES
Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item that is already priced that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values. Note that the use of the word 'otherwise' indicates you should use the other method first.

If you went by the formula alone everyone would wind up with constant items that granted true strike, protection from evil, shield, expeditious retreat, divine favor, etc.
risner
08-02-06, 03:59 PM Item of "shield" (as per the first level arcane spell)

Item of "protection from evil" (as per the first level arcane spell)
(bonus squared X 1000)
+2 delection bonus= 2*2*1000=4k
+2 saves bonus= 2*2*1000=4k
protection from charm/domination

Shield would be:
4*4*2,500 = 40,000 gp (safest, give the extra abilities for free.)

or could be argued to be:
4*4*2125 = 34,000 gp (increase a Ring of Force from +2 to +4 Shield AC)

Protection from Evil is hard to do as a continous effect. Best bet is to take the Exalted armour ability and ignore the two minor bonus abilities or maybe consider the cost of the ability alone (without requiring the "cost" of the base +1 as part of the ring?)

So, a Ring of Protection from Evil would likely be at least:
3*3*2,000 = 18,000
Merestil Haye
08-02-06, 06:03 PM I disagree with the evaluations of the item of Shield most of the others provide for one simple reason. There is no way that a Shield bonus to AC is worth as much as a Deflection bonus to AC, let alone an "other" bonus to AC.

I personally feel that if Bracers of Armour +x are proced the same as an enhancement bonus +x to armour's AC bonus then an item providing a shield bonus +y to AC should be priced the same as a +y enhancement to a shield's AC bonus. Thus I'd agree with the OP's 16,000gp price for the item. This item will not protect against magic Missile. If you want that, get a Brooch of Shielding.

I might be persuaded to a 50% uplift. I will never agree to pricing them as equal to a Sacred or Insight bonus.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ryeookin 08-01-06, 08:17 PM	Some low level constant items could be rather useful. Unfortunately I'm not near my DMG so I can only go off what I remember at the moment for what the cost would be.. Can I get some help with the math? Item of "shield" (as per the first level arcane spell) Cost: 16,000 (8k in materials) formula: (bonus squared X 1000) +4 deflection bonus= 441000=16k (not sure how to factor the shield spell absorbing magic missles into the price..) Item of "protection from evil" (as per the first level arcane spell) Cost: 8k+ This one is harder to calculate since it has so many powers.. formula: (bonus squared X 1000) +2 delection bonus= 221000=4k +2 saves bonus= 221000=4k protection from charm/domination cost ? shrugs Any ideas here?
CryoSilver 08-01-06, 08:45 PM	Calculate the price as though it were the Spell Immunity spell, which I believe is level 4; therefore, it adds 42,0007=56,ooo to the cost, which may be excessive...
Dheran 08-01-06, 11:08 PM	AC bonus (other) Bonus squared × 2,500 gp If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2. Shield ... provides a +4 shield bonus to AC. So that gives you 4^2 x 2,500 x 2 = 80,000 g.p., and something extra for the ability to negate magic missile attacks. For 80,000 g.p., I'd throw that in for free -- but others might not be so generous; check with your DM.
SilentOne 08-01-06, 11:27 PM	AC bonus (other) Bonus squared × 2,500 gp If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2. So that gives you 4^2 x 2,500 x 2 = 80,000 g.p., and something extra for the ability to negate magic missile attacks. For 80,000 g.p., I'd throw that in for free -- but others might not be so generous; check with your DM. if you're going to use the AC formula instead of the normal spell formula (which you should in this situation) you don't need the x2 cost, because there is no duration to be had. 40k sounds.... alright.
Fallenangel359 08-01-06, 11:32 PM	uhm, the cost for spells as constant items is 2000xcasterlevelxspelllevel So a level 1 spell, such as shield, is 2000x1x1, or 2000 gold a level 2 spell, cast by a wizard is 2000x2x3, or cast by a sorceror is 2000x2x4 It depends on who makes the item partially
Chikngizrd 08-02-06, 12:55 AM	uhm, the cost for spells as constant items is 2000xcasterlevelxspelllevel Not to be trite but, its fairly well acknowledged that if you use that formula in all instances of creating continuous items, you're in for a broken campaign quickly. Shield is but one hienous abuse of a phenominal effect to have all the time. Check the boards, there are lots of others. The generally accepted fix is to charge by what the effect does. In this case, grants a +4 armor bonus (plus stops magic missles), so cost is determined as +4 armor. Granted, its a houserule, you're welcome to use the aforementioned formula wholesale, but I'd recommend against it.
Finarin Panjoro 08-02-06, 10:05 AM	Actually that's not even a house rule. It clearly states in the DMG that the best method of pricing an item is by comparing what the item does to items with similar abilities. The formula's are only fallback positions for when you can't find a comparable item. MAGIC ITEM GOLD PIECE VALUES Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item that is already priced that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values. Note that the use of the word 'otherwise' indicates you should use the other method first. If you went by the formula alone everyone would wind up with constant items that granted true strike, protection from evil, shield, expeditious retreat, divine favor, etc.
risner 08-02-06, 03:59 PM	Item of "shield" (as per the first level arcane spell) Item of "protection from evil" (as per the first level arcane spell) (bonus squared X 1000) +2 delection bonus= 221000=4k +2 saves bonus= 221000=4k protection from charm/domination Shield would be: 442,500 = 40,000 gp (safest, give the extra abilities for free.) or could be argued to be: 442125 = 34,000 gp (increase a Ring of Force from +2 to +4 Shield AC) Protection from Evil is hard to do as a continous effect. Best bet is to take the Exalted armour ability and ignore the two minor bonus abilities or maybe consider the cost of the ability alone (without requiring the "cost" of the base +1 as part of the ring?) So, a Ring of Protection from Evil would likely be at least: 332,000 = 18,000
Merestil Haye 08-02-06, 06:03 PM	I disagree with the evaluations of the item of Shield most of the others provide for one simple reason. There is no way that a Shield bonus to AC is worth as much as a Deflection bonus to AC, let alone an "other" bonus to AC. I personally feel that if Bracers of Armour +x are proced the same as an enhancement bonus +x to armour's AC bonus then an item providing a shield bonus +y to AC should be priced the same as a +y enhancement to a shield's AC bonus. Thus I'd agree with the OP's 16,000gp price for the item. This item will not protect against magic Missile. If you want that, get a Brooch of Shielding. I might be persuaded to a 50% uplift. I will never agree to pricing them as equal to a Sacred or Insight bonus.