Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pyro_cat 06-17-05, 03:18 PM	but couldnt one make a ring that only a alignment restricted class can use (paladin, for example) that would let the character use cure light wounds at will for only 1260 gold? so, basically a better ring of regeneration for 1/80 of the price?
Beamup 06-17-05, 03:21 PM	You can do so only if your DM is a fool who ignores the fact that new magic items should be priced primarily by effect, rather than the suggested guidelines for making a first estimate of the price. IOW, absolutely not.
pyro_cat 06-17-05, 03:27 PM	You can do so only if your DM is a fool who ignores the fact that new magic items should be priced primarily by effect, rather than the suggested guidelines for making a first estimate of the price. IOW, absolutely not. well, its an awfully good thing mine is :D
Beamup 06-17-05, 03:29 PM	well, its an awfully good thing mine is :D Maybe next he'll let you have a Sword of True Strike for 2,000 gold. :rolleyes:
katarl 06-17-05, 03:32 PM	The other players use a rod of cure lights wounds as a portable cleric... at epic level They see nothing wrong with it
pyro_cat 06-17-05, 03:34 PM	Maybe next he'll let you have a Sword of True Strike for 2,000 gold. :rolleyes: hmm... thats a good idea too, i'll slip that one past him too
BusterBuster 06-17-05, 03:42 PM	but couldnt one make a ring that only a alignment restricted class can use (paladin, for example) that would let the character use cure light wounds at will for only 1260 gold? so, basically a better ring of regeneration for 1/80 of the price? Yes.
mvincent 06-17-05, 03:42 PM	but couldnt one make a ring that only a alignment restricted class can use (paladin, for example) that would let the character use cure light wounds at will for only 1260 gold? so, basically a better ring of regeneration for 1/80 of the price?More gross combinations can be made with those price estimation tables (i.e. a ring of "Cure Minor Wounds", usable by anyone, would be even cheaper). However, those tables aren't actually intended for players to freely use, and they are not balanced to be used as RAW. They can assist in determining the value of something, but it's the DM's call... and the DM can just as easily rule the item should cost 1 gp. Note though that your example still violates the (too minimal) instructions on the tables use: "Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item that is already priced that price as a guide. "
mvincent 06-17-05, 03:53 PM	hmm... thats a good idea too, i'll slip that one past him tooWell, now you're just taking the challenge out of it. At least advise him that you are just making inquiries and suggestions (based on the tables), but ultimately the price is decided by him (this will likely change nothing, but you should feel less guilty). Also, I'd avoid trying to take these items to games run by other DM's.
tarkin 06-17-05, 04:15 PM	While you are taking the typical obvious illegal abuses that no sane DM falls for, don't forget the following: 1) Ring of Mage Armor (+4 AC) for 2,000 gp, always on (ignore the 16,000 Bracers of Armor +4) 2) Item of Enlarge Person for 2,000 gp 3) Item of Shield spell for 2,000 gp 4) item of Cure Minor WOunds 1/round continuous 1,000 gp 5) Item of True Strike 2,000 gp 1/round, continuous All of these are pretty clearly worth at least 8,000 gp, most a lot more. Smarter DM's also realize that Entropic Shield (better than +4 to AC, but only against ranged attacks) and Charm Person (can you say Emperor Me?) are also prone to abuse as a continuous itme.
pyro_cat 06-17-05, 04:29 PM	Well, now you're just taking the challenge out of it. At least advise him that you are just making inquiries and suggestions (based on the tables), but ultimately the price is decided by him (this will likely change nothing, but you should feel less guilty). Also, I'd avoid trying to take these items to games run by other DM's. im KIDDING... jeez well, i was about the true strike sword and i only really enquired about the ring to see if my calculations were correct
-Defiler of Souls- 06-17-05, 07:31 PM	While you are taking the typical obvious illegal abuses that no sane DM falls for, don't forget the following: 1) Ring of Mage Armor (+4 AC) for 2,000 gp, always on (ignore the 16,000 Bracers of Armor +4) 1 right 2) Item of Enlarge Person for 2,000 gp try 4,000 3) Item of Shield spell for 2,000 gp once again 4,000 4) item of Cure Minor WOunds 1/round continuous 1,000 gp first off continous may only be applied to spells with a duration longer then instantaneous, you can however make it have unlimited uses, in which case it still requires a standard action to use also, the price would be determined as usual for a spell reproducing item only with 100 charges 5) Item of True Strike 2,000 gp 1/round, continuous see response to cure minor wounds All of these are pretty clearly worth at least 8,000 gp, most a lot more. Smarter DM's also realize that Entropic Shield (better than +4 to AC, but only against ranged attacks) and Charm Person (can you say Emperor Me?) are also prone to abuse as a continuous itme. for many items this is true, however i am of the opinion that ac items are severely overpriced....the simple fact is right now, unless you choose one of the select few classes with good ac abilities(such as duelist) AND build your character around ac, at mid to high levels enemies will almost always hit you(mainly because theres no BaB equivilent for ac) yet even in spite of this you need to spent upwards of 150k gold at later levels just to match the BaB of similar leveled characters...and while the persistant effect low level magic items don't solve this problem, they do help. for example its not uncommon for a 20th level fighter character to have an attack bonus around +36 unbuffed, whereas a similar leveled warrior type with all the best ac items will have an ac of around 35(+9 or so from dex+armor, +5 natural armor, +5 enhancement bonus, +5 deflection bonus, + 10 base, +1 from dodge) so first attack hits 95% of the time, second attack hits 85% of the time, third 60% of the time, and fourth 35% of the time (even more hits when buffed/hasted, and there are far more attack bonus buffs that stack with magic items then ac buffs) anyway, all that asside, as the system stands now spellcasters capable of casting the spells don't have much real insentive to get ac bonus magic items....because the benefits compared to just casting the spell aren't worth how much the items are valued at. The continouse spell function makes magic items just as useful to spellcasters as they are to fighter types, which IMHO is how it should be. However i do see three things that i believe should be restricted: 1). the use of continouse effect items by character who can't ordinarily cast the spells and 2). unlimited use items(aka items with unlimited charges of spells with instantaneous duration or spells targeting someone other then yourself). Continous items are based on items with duration, usually spells you would only need to cast once per combat, and these spells useually have little use outside of combat(also see reason three). However instantaneous duration spells and spells targetting other characters/creatures, having unlimited use are a great improvement on spells per day. Where duration spells may be used once per encounter(and thus at most saving you maybe 3 spell slots), instantaneous duration spells/spells targeting other characters/creatures could be useful several times per combat, sometimes saving you many many spells in a day. (in short i believe unlimited uses of a spell you would "cast" from an item, instead of simply recieving the continous benefit of a spell, should not be allowed) 3). spells that would be useful outside of combat should not be allowed to be continous or unlimited use(spells that heal over time and such). This should be restricted because it does more then just grant you a buff during combat: it makes you enter every encounter with the effects that accumulated over time not fighting(for example while a continous effect mage armor grants 4 ac, a continous effect greater consumption field(or whatever its called...its from libis mortis and i don't have the book handy right now) not only grants the combat bonuses, but allows you to enter combat with a large bonus to CL gained from walking around in a small town or something along those lines) anyway the point is that i don't think the price estimate for continous effect spells are nearly as overpowered as some people seem to think, the only spells really worth the price are first level spells, and with my 3 restrictions the only really useful 1st level spells available are ac spells, which due to my whole opinion on AC aren't all that bad
Nephlite 06-17-05, 08:08 PM	While you are taking the typical obvious illegal abuses that no sane DM falls for, don't forget the following: 1) Ring of Mage Armor (+4 AC) for 2,000 gp, always on (ignore the 16,000 Bracers of Armor +4) 2) Item of Enlarge Person for 2,000 gp 3) Item of Shield spell for 2,000 gp All these are multiplied by 2 because always on. 1) Ring of Mage Armor (+4 AC) for 4,000 gp 2) Item of Enlarge Person for 4,000 gp 3) Item of Shield spell for 4,000 gp 4) item of Cure Minor WOunds 1/round continuous 1,000 gp 5) Item of True Strike 2,000 gp 1/round, continuous As Defiuler says: first off continous may only be applied to spells with a duration longer then instantaneous, you can however make it have unlimited uses, in which case it still requires a standard action to use also, the price would be determined as usual for a spell reproducing item only with 100 charges. All of these are pretty clearly worth at least 8,000 gp, most a lot more. Smarter DM's also realize that Entropic Shield (better than +4 to AC, but only against ranged attacks) and Charm Person (can you say Emperor Me?) are also prone to abuse as a continuous itme. Nope they are worth at least 3, 999 gold. (but DMG says 4k for Guidelines because rounding). Smarter DM's also realize that Ring of Entropic Shield cost 4k How would one permanent charm person? A Ring when it continously affects person who wears it? You lost me. Do you mean At will useage? Please specify what you mean because you arent using the right words. Continous does not mean at will. Continous means always on. At will means unlimited useage. Charm Person continous is pretty weak. Charm Person at will is very strong.
Shaken, not Stunned 06-17-05, 09:21 PM	BTW, try an item of meteor swar usable once every 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0.0001 days. It will price out to a fraction of a CP.