Cost of adding more magic abilities to existing item [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cost of adding more magic abilities to existing item [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
perogy1
09-02-04, 04:37 PM I am a little confused about the final cost of an item that someone in my game is modifying.

18000gp Bracers of Deflection +3 (this is the starting existing item)
1500gp Added Armor bonus +1 (50% increase of cost as it is an addition)
3200gp Added detect magic [(L1 caster x L1 spell x 2000)/(5/2 uses a day)] x 2
Detect magic 2 times a day is x2 as it is a different ability

I do not know how much to add costwise for a +1 enhancement for unarmed attacks. Would I need to work in the cost of magic fang or some other spell?
wolfhawk
09-08-04, 06:40 PM I am a little confused about the final cost of an item that someone in my game is modifying.

18000gp Bracers of Deflection +3 (this is the starting existing item)
1500gp Added Armor bonus +1 (50% increase of cost as it is an addition)
3200gp Added detect magic [(L1 caster x L1 spell x 2000)/(5/2 uses a day)] x 2
Detect magic 2 times a day is x2 as it is a different ability

I do not know how much to add costwise for a +1 enhancement for unarmed attacks. Would I need to work in the cost of magic fang or some other spell?

The way to do this is simple. Start cost = 18kgp
If I am reading correctly this ends up as bracers +4 (32kgp)
with an added detect magic (3200 gp, as above)

Thus, the final cost is 35.2kgp.
Subtracting the start cost of 18kgp, we get 17.2kgp. That is what your player must pay.
ninja1
09-09-04, 09:01 AM Yup, what wolfhawk said. Figure out the final cost and subtract the cost to make what he/she allready has.

If you are interested in the actual wording of the rule, check out the 3.5 SRD <here> (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MagicItemsI.rtf).

Look towards the bottom (2nd to the last page) for "ADDING NEW ABILITIES"

I would point out the part where it mentions item effects that occupies a specific place on a character’s body.

Adding a +1 to unnarmed attacks sounds alot like the Amulet of Mighty Fists (neck slot). Under Adding New Abilities this would cost 50% more than the 3,000gp to make (4,500gp). The Market Value of that add-on would be 9,000gp

Also, are you refering to Bracers of Armor? Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus, not a deflection bonus. (rings of protection provide a deflection bonus).

9,000 gp is the market value of +3 Bracers of Armor. The cost to create it is half that or 4,500 gp.

Added an Armor bonus of +1 does not incur a 50% increase of cost for being an addition.

Figure the price to make a +4 Bracer of Armor (8,000gp) and subtract the price to make a +3 Bracer of Armor (4,500gp) and you are left with the cost to improve the +3 (3,500).

Market Value for such an enhancement would be 7,000gp.
Zherog
09-09-04, 10:50 AM While the advice on how to price it has been correct, please note that he is not making something with a +4. It's a +3 deflection bonus and a +1 armor bonus. The net is +4, but they are two different bonus types.
tarkin
09-09-04, 11:54 AM A DM is supposed to not let players get away with moronic cheats. Consider getting +1 Deflection and a +3 Enhancment. His pricing method would be around 11,000, compared to bracers of armor +4 for 16,000. This looks abusive to me. The truth is it makes little sense to combine a magic item that does AC from both Deflection and Armor. He should make them two different items. If he insists on doing it that way, this is how I would price it.

+3 Deflection costs 18,000 gp.
A +4 Deflection would costs 32,000 gp. But he is making the last +1 an enhancement to Armor, which normally costs 1/2 the price of an Deflecton bonus. As such, I would price the +3 Deflection, +1 Armor at 27,000 gp.

Next he wants Detect Magic 2x/ day. Price is 1*1*2000/5 * 2 = 400 gp, x2 for being an extra ability added to the item.

I would price his item at 27,800 gp total cost. For this he gets an item that grants +3 Deflection, +1 Armor, and lets him use Detect Magic twice per day.
ninja1
09-11-04, 12:12 AM Well, now, now, we can make personal value judgements about perogy1's DMing style, but that might just offend him/her.

I don't think that would be condusive to having future healthy discussions.

As I love to play devil's advocate, let me write in his/her defense.

Before we jump to call perogy1 "Monty Hall", let's remind ourselves that it could be worse. The item in question does have a +3 of one bonus type.

It could have had a +1 insight, +1 morale, +1 profane....... and then add a +1 armor.
:D

Zherog, I wasn't sure if he really meant a Deflection bonus. That's why I asked him to clarify.

He wrote that it was a "starting existing item".

Granted, he could have meant that the item "existed" in game and that the character in question would have been "starting" the (re)enchanting process using this item, but I was (and am still) unsure.

He/she also may have been trying to make a reference to an item allready existing in print.

If I may elaborate my point of view, we are 'in real life', not 'in game'. perogy1, is asking us for help with a rules question.

When he writes the background info to explain the application of pricing guidelines, he uses terms from the DMG, not from 'in character' info.

When he writes "starting existing item" I also take that to refer to an existing item in the DMG.

It could go either way, which is why I asked if he/she was refering to Bracers of Armor.

.....so perogy1, were you?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
perogy1 09-02-04, 04:37 PM	I am a little confused about the final cost of an item that someone in my game is modifying. 18000gp Bracers of Deflection +3 (this is the starting existing item) 1500gp Added Armor bonus +1 (50% increase of cost as it is an addition) 3200gp Added detect magic [(L1 caster x L1 spell x 2000)/(5/2 uses a day)] x 2 Detect magic 2 times a day is x2 as it is a different ability I do not know how much to add costwise for a +1 enhancement for unarmed attacks. Would I need to work in the cost of magic fang or some other spell?
wolfhawk 09-08-04, 06:40 PM	I am a little confused about the final cost of an item that someone in my game is modifying. 18000gp Bracers of Deflection +3 (this is the starting existing item) 1500gp Added Armor bonus +1 (50% increase of cost as it is an addition) 3200gp Added detect magic [(L1 caster x L1 spell x 2000)/(5/2 uses a day)] x 2 Detect magic 2 times a day is x2 as it is a different ability I do not know how much to add costwise for a +1 enhancement for unarmed attacks. Would I need to work in the cost of magic fang or some other spell? The way to do this is simple. Start cost = 18kgp If I am reading correctly this ends up as bracers +4 (32kgp) with an added detect magic (3200 gp, as above) Thus, the final cost is 35.2kgp. Subtracting the start cost of 18kgp, we get 17.2kgp. That is what your player must pay.
ninja1 09-09-04, 09:01 AM	Yup, what wolfhawk said. Figure out the final cost and subtract the cost to make what he/she allready has. If you are interested in the actual wording of the rule, check out the 3.5 SRD <here> (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MagicItemsI.rtf). Look towards the bottom (2nd to the last page) for "ADDING NEW ABILITIES" I would point out the part where it mentions item effects that occupies a specific place on a character’s body. Adding a +1 to unnarmed attacks sounds alot like the Amulet of Mighty Fists (neck slot). Under Adding New Abilities this would cost 50% more than the 3,000gp to make (4,500gp). The Market Value of that add-on would be 9,000gp Also, are you refering to Bracers of Armor? Bracers of Armor provide an armor bonus, not a deflection bonus. (rings of protection provide a deflection bonus). 9,000 gp is the market value of +3 Bracers of Armor. The cost to create it is half that or 4,500 gp. Added an Armor bonus of +1 does not incur a 50% increase of cost for being an addition. Figure the price to make a +4 Bracer of Armor (8,000gp) and subtract the price to make a +3 Bracer of Armor (4,500gp) and you are left with the cost to improve the +3 (3,500). Market Value for such an enhancement would be 7,000gp.
Zherog 09-09-04, 10:50 AM	While the advice on how to price it has been correct, please note that he is not making something with a +4. It's a +3 deflection bonus and a +1 armor bonus. The net is +4, but they are two different bonus types.
tarkin 09-09-04, 11:54 AM	A DM is supposed to not let players get away with moronic cheats. Consider getting +1 Deflection and a +3 Enhancment. His pricing method would be around 11,000, compared to bracers of armor +4 for 16,000. This looks abusive to me. The truth is it makes little sense to combine a magic item that does AC from both Deflection and Armor. He should make them two different items. If he insists on doing it that way, this is how I would price it. +3 Deflection costs 18,000 gp. A +4 Deflection would costs 32,000 gp. But he is making the last +1 an enhancement to Armor, which normally costs 1/2 the price of an Deflecton bonus. As such, I would price the +3 Deflection, +1 Armor at 27,000 gp. Next he wants Detect Magic 2x/ day. Price is 112000/5 * 2 = 400 gp, x2 for being an extra ability added to the item. I would price his item at 27,800 gp total cost. For this he gets an item that grants +3 Deflection, +1 Armor, and lets him use Detect Magic twice per day.
ninja1 09-11-04, 12:12 AM	Well, now, now, we can make personal value judgements about perogy1's DMing style, but that might just offend him/her. I don't think that would be condusive to having future healthy discussions. As I love to play devil's advocate, let me write in his/her defense. Before we jump to call perogy1 "Monty Hall", let's remind ourselves that it could be worse. The item in question does have a +3 of one bonus type. It could have had a +1 insight, +1 morale, +1 profane....... and then add a +1 armor. :D Zherog, I wasn't sure if he really meant a Deflection bonus. That's why I asked him to clarify. He wrote that it was a "starting existing item". Granted, he could have meant that the item "existed" in game and that the character in question would have been "starting" the (re)enchanting process using this item, but I was (and am still) unsure. He/she also may have been trying to make a reference to an item allready existing in print. If I may elaborate my point of view, we are 'in real life', not 'in game'. perogy1, is asking us for help with a rules question. When he writes the background info to explain the application of pricing guidelines, he uses terms from the DMG, not from 'in character' info. When he writes "starting existing item" I also take that to refer to an existing item in the DMG. It could go either way, which is why I asked if he/she was refering to Bracers of Armor. .....so perogy1, were you?