Cost of living in an appartment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cost of living in an appartment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nilliom
09-09-04, 09:27 PM Is there anywhere something mentionned about the living cost for normal people. The only thing I have seen is mostly oriented at adventurers on the move, living on the road, in inns etc...

I have seen nothing about living in an appartment, a rent.

Have you heard about this somewhere
Kalanth
09-09-04, 10:44 PM Not that I can think of, but I would say it would be based on the type/size and other factors. Maybe 100 gold a month or so for a nice apt. would be resonable? I have never had players ask that before.
EmirikolTheChaotic
09-09-04, 11:27 PM See "Variant: Upkeep", page 130, 3.5 DMG.
Dark Cyril
09-10-04, 12:33 AM Unless it is a city based campaign, I wouldn't worry about it. That's just another thing to worry about for both the player and the DM. But then again, if you like the micromanagement in you campaign, consider it like this. (Okay, I can't find the ruling in the book, so I'm gonna try to remember it)

1 sp is the equivalent of a days work of labor for a commoner. Thus, 100 gp is very exorbitant. That would be something that a noble might rent out for rendevous(sp?) with other women. One that a normal person would probably rent out would probably be somewhere closer to a couple of sps a month, maybe less.
Nilliom
09-10-04, 06:41 AM This is in a city based campaign in Waterdeep of the Forgotten Realms. I have seen the Upkeep part in the DMG.

2gp is when you grow your own food, etc... (hard to do in a city)
5gp is when you have very poor living condition, sometime sleeping on the street not eating much, and even hunt for your food.
12 gp is for the most basic taveler's accomodations. better then living on the street
etc...

For what I see it mostly inflated price for adventurers (like 45 gp ) to live in inns. A normal common family laborer of status Journeyman (Around 4rd level) would do around 12gp a month (1 sp * 4 level * 30 days). If this is the case then normal living people must be all around 4th level to just get by and not have much money left at the end of the month. It means a lot of 4th level NPC in the street. An apprentice laborer of 1st level make 3 gp a month! How can he live on that.

I agree with you Dark Ciril that silver piece is more likely but there is nothing anywhere that confirm it.
Dark Cyril
09-10-04, 09:21 AM It depends wholly on the setting. In Waterdeep, I can see things being more expensive. But I found the bit that I was looking for. It's in the DMG, on page 139, under coinage:

The economic system in the D&D game is based on the silver piece (sp). A common laborer earns 1 sp a day. That's just enough to allow his family to survive, assuming that this income is supplemented with food his family grows to eat, homemade clothing, and a reliance on self-sufficiency for most tasks (personal grooming, health, animal tending, and so on).

But like I said, in Waterdeep, eh... prices are probably going to be higher. I still wouldn't make apartments much more than a couple of sp a month at anyrate. It just doesn't make economic sense.

BTW: It also says under the Upkeep in the DMG that a common laborer makes about 3 gp a month, so he makes enough to be self-sufficient.
Zherog
09-10-04, 10:15 AM An apprentice laborer of 1st level make 3 gp a month! How can he live on that.

The same way people today who are just starting out get by on really poor wages: they live with other people. This could be an extended family living situation where everybody chips in, or it could be "roommates" who share a place and split the costs.

2gp is when you grow your own food, etc... (hard to do in a city)

Actually, it's not. My parents live in the City of Philadelphia. They have a fairly large vegatable garden in their yard, with a lot of yard left over. I live in Bensalem, which is one of the suburbs of Philly. The area I live is very much "city" like, and we grow a lot of vegatables.

Now, in both cases, it's not enough food to live on, but it does help supplement.

And here's one other scenario of how city living people have gardens. I once did volunteer work in an inner-city neighborhood. Philadelphia has a huge problem with blight - there's a ton of abandoned houses and lots in the city. Well, this particular neighborhood got real tired of a lot the size of one city block being used by drug dealers, so they took it back and turned it into a garden. It's an amazing sight - this "field" right in the middle of an inner city neighborhood. All the neighbors chip in doing the work, and everybody takes what they need. Several families do "canning" at the end of the season, and everybody gets some to last them through the winter.

And one final thought on those wages. Remember those are for "common" labor. An artisan or an "uncommon" laborer would certainly be able to make more. Other people who might qualify as a "common" laborer (such as a barmaid) might make more due to the generosity of adventurers.

I think when you factor in all the above you can easily come up with scenarios where people can live given the wages and costs in the DMG.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nilliom 09-09-04, 09:27 PM	Is there anywhere something mentionned about the living cost for normal people. The only thing I have seen is mostly oriented at adventurers on the move, living on the road, in inns etc... I have seen nothing about living in an appartment, a rent. Have you heard about this somewhere
Kalanth 09-09-04, 10:44 PM	Not that I can think of, but I would say it would be based on the type/size and other factors. Maybe 100 gold a month or so for a nice apt. would be resonable? I have never had players ask that before.
EmirikolTheChaotic 09-09-04, 11:27 PM	See "Variant: Upkeep", page 130, 3.5 DMG.
Dark Cyril 09-10-04, 12:33 AM	Unless it is a city based campaign, I wouldn't worry about it. That's just another thing to worry about for both the player and the DM. But then again, if you like the micromanagement in you campaign, consider it like this. (Okay, I can't find the ruling in the book, so I'm gonna try to remember it) 1 sp is the equivalent of a days work of labor for a commoner. Thus, 100 gp is very exorbitant. That would be something that a noble might rent out for rendevous(sp?) with other women. One that a normal person would probably rent out would probably be somewhere closer to a couple of sps a month, maybe less.
Nilliom 09-10-04, 06:41 AM	This is in a city based campaign in Waterdeep of the Forgotten Realms. I have seen the Upkeep part in the DMG. 2gp is when you grow your own food, etc... (hard to do in a city) 5gp is when you have very poor living condition, sometime sleeping on the street not eating much, and even hunt for your food. 12 gp is for the most basic taveler's accomodations. better then living on the street etc... For what I see it mostly inflated price for adventurers (like 45 gp ) to live in inns. A normal common family laborer of status Journeyman (Around 4rd level) would do around 12gp a month (1 sp * 4 level * 30 days). If this is the case then normal living people must be all around 4th level to just get by and not have much money left at the end of the month. It means a lot of 4th level NPC in the street. An apprentice laborer of 1st level make 3 gp a month! How can he live on that. I agree with you Dark Ciril that silver piece is more likely but there is nothing anywhere that confirm it.
Dark Cyril 09-10-04, 09:21 AM	It depends wholly on the setting. In Waterdeep, I can see things being more expensive. But I found the bit that I was looking for. It's in the DMG, on page 139, under coinage: The economic system in the D&D game is based on the silver piece (sp). A common laborer earns 1 sp a day. That's just enough to allow his family to survive, assuming that this income is supplemented with food his family grows to eat, homemade clothing, and a reliance on self-sufficiency for most tasks (personal grooming, health, animal tending, and so on). But like I said, in Waterdeep, eh... prices are probably going to be higher. I still wouldn't make apartments much more than a couple of sp a month at anyrate. It just doesn't make economic sense. BTW: It also says under the Upkeep in the DMG that a common laborer makes about 3 gp a month, so he makes enough to be self-sufficient.
Zherog 09-10-04, 10:15 AM	An apprentice laborer of 1st level make 3 gp a month! How can he live on that. The same way people today who are just starting out get by on really poor wages: they live with other people. This could be an extended family living situation where everybody chips in, or it could be "roommates" who share a place and split the costs. 2gp is when you grow your own food, etc... (hard to do in a city) Actually, it's not. My parents live in the City of Philadelphia. They have a fairly large vegatable garden in their yard, with a lot of yard left over. I live in Bensalem, which is one of the suburbs of Philly. The area I live is very much "city" like, and we grow a lot of vegatables. Now, in both cases, it's not enough food to live on, but it does help supplement. And here's one other scenario of how city living people have gardens. I once did volunteer work in an inner-city neighborhood. Philadelphia has a huge problem with blight - there's a ton of abandoned houses and lots in the city. Well, this particular neighborhood got real tired of a lot the size of one city block being used by drug dealers, so they took it back and turned it into a garden. It's an amazing sight - this "field" right in the middle of an inner city neighborhood. All the neighbors chip in doing the work, and everybody takes what they need. Several families do "canning" at the end of the season, and everybody gets some to last them through the winter. And one final thought on those wages. Remember those are for "common" labor. An artisan or an "uncommon" laborer would certainly be able to make more. Other people who might qualify as a "common" laborer (such as a barmaid) might make more due to the generosity of adventurers. I think when you factor in all the above you can easily come up with scenarios where people can live given the wages and costs in the DMG.