Cost of Magic Shuriken [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cost of Magic Shuriken [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Werebat
11-14-07, 08:23 PM I'm confused... The text for "shuriken" says they are treated as ammunition for purposes of crafting masterwork and other special versions of them, but they are listed with the "uncommon weapons" in the section on magic weapons (not the missile weapons), and the cost seems to indicate they must be enchanted one at a time.

If I want magic shuriken, how much do they cost? The book seems to indicate that one +1 shuriken would cost 2301 gp and (since it is treated as ammunition) it would be used up once thrown. This seems incredibly expensive but I don't see any other options.

Help? :confused:

- Ron ^*^
Legdiwena
11-14-07, 08:42 PM Have your arcanist cast greater magic weapon on them, but it won't be permanent.
CryoSilver
11-14-07, 09:22 PM Pick the one that makes sense. Treat them as ammunition for purposes of enhancement.
Werebat
11-14-07, 09:27 PM Pick the one that makes sense. Treat them as ammunition for purposes of enhancement.

This does indeed make sense -- but how many are enchanted in a batch? 50?

This DOES make the most sense because shuriken are treated as ammunition for all other purposes... How dumb would it be to enchant a +1 Returning shuriken and then have it be destroyed the first time it hit a target?

I was just wondering if this had ever been officially addressed. It seems like it should have come up somewhere before.

- Ron ^*^
Legdiwena
11-14-07, 09:27 PM No matter which route you take for crafting them. Neither is cost-effective as magic weapons due to them being destroyed on impact.
CryoSilver
11-14-07, 09:42 PM That is true, in most cases, Greater Magic Weapon is the route to go.

It costs 36,000 gp for a Wand of GMW at CL12, which produces +5 weapons. That wand will enchant 50 shuriken at a time, for 12 hours. 12 hours is probably enough time to use 50 shuriken in a dungeon crawl/grind; if you throw three per round, that's 17 rounds of combat, which is about 4 fights. In total, that's 2500 shuriken, at a cost of 14.6 gp per shuriken,including the cost of the weapon itself (2 sp). Also, these shuriken do not have to be masterwork, which saves you 6 gp per round, totalling 12000 gp in savings (enough to enhance a weapon and suit of armor to +2 each)! Total cost: 36,500 gp.

To actually enchant 2500 shuriken at +5 would cost 1006.2 gp for each shuriken. Total cost: 2,515,500 gp, 68.9 times more expensive than using a wand. Therefore, even if you only use ONE SHURIKEN each time you use the wand, you still save money.
SpydaK
11-15-07, 08:21 AM The PHB says "Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown. (PHB 121)

The DMG states that the price a normal weapon enchantment is the equivalent of 50 units of ammunition (which would also include shuriken). So, if each masterwork shuriken would cost 7 gp, and enchanting 50 of them with a 1+ bonus would cost 2,000gp, then each +1 shuriken would cost 47gp, +2 would cost 167gp, +3 at 367 gp, +4 at 647 gp, +5 at 1007gp, etc. (DMG 222)

As stated above, shuriken are treated as ammo for what happens to them after they are thrown. The DMG states that "When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or is otherwise rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, or bullet that his is destroyed." (DMG 221)

As for the wand of Greater Magic Weapon, the text for the spell reads that it "gives a weapon an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5)" (PHB 251), so a wand of CL12 would grant a +3 bonus, not a +5. A +5 would have to come from a wand made by a 20th level caster, which would cost 45,000gp (3*20*750gp). A wand made at CL12 would cost 27,000 gp, and give a +3 bonus.

The spell text also reads: "Projectiles but not thrown weapons lose their transmutation when used. (Treat shuriken as projectiles, rather than thrown weapons for the purpose of this spell.)" In other words, you'd have to use a charge of this spell for each shuriken you would want to temporarily enchant.

So, if you wanted +3 shuriken, you could make each one enchanted that way for 367gp, or use one of the charges from the wand, costing 540gp, and lasting for 12 hours.

However, each charge from the +5 wand would cost 900gp, versus the 1007gp for the enchants, assuming that you have a mage (or rogue with Use Magic Device) that can use the wand, and that the DM allows such a wand to come from such a powerful mage NPC (20th level).

Also, if you wanted to add other enchants to the shuriken, such as seeking, flaming, holy, etc, you wouldn't be able to do so with the wand.
RavenDrake
11-15-07, 08:38 AM You're a bit confused there, Spydak, at least in regards to the charges necessary.

The spell clearly states it will affect up to 50 projectiles. And since it says that Shuriken are treated as projectiles, then a single charge from a wand will indeed affect shuriken in batches of up to 50, just like arrows or crossbow bolts. The clause you quoted(about losing it's transmutation) is there because when used, whether they break or not when thrown, they lose the magic of the spell and become mundane again.
DracoPhoenix
11-15-07, 08:44 AM The next question is, could you create a pouch of energy? (like the psionic item energy quiver)

51,000g for 2500 +5 flaming (or what ever) shurikens seems good to me. :)

(20.4g each)
risner
11-15-07, 08:57 AM I'm confused... The text for "shuriken" says they are treated as ammunition

50 (fifty) +1 shuriken cost 2,000 gp plus masterwork costs.

They are destroyed when thrown.
Legdiwena
11-15-07, 01:33 PM Isn't there a quiver that makes any arrow put into it +1 or so for a few rounds after being withdrawn, should be easy to make a pouch that does same thing for shurikens.
Werebat
11-15-07, 06:22 PM 50 (fifty) +1 shuriken cost 2,000 gp plus masterwork costs.

They are destroyed when thrown.

And according to the DMG each masterwork shuriken costs 301 gp, so 50 +1 shuriken cost... 17050 gp? That seems really steep...

(Seriously, DMG page 222, under "Uncommon Weapons". Compare to arrows in the "Ammunition" chart on the same page. The entry for shuriken doesn't say anything about 50 of them, compared to the one about arrows. This is true in the SRD as well.)

- Ron ^*^
RavenDrake
11-16-07, 03:08 AM And according to the DMG each masterwork shuriken costs 301 gp, so 50 +1 shuriken cost... 17050 gp? That seems really steep...

(Seriously, DMG page 222, under "Uncommon Weapons". Compare to arrows in the "Ammunition" chart on the same page. The entry for shuriken doesn't say anything about 50 of them, compared to the one about arrows. This is true in the SRD as well.)

- Ron ^*^

83-84 Shuriken (50) +310 gp

While the chart in the DMG does indeed contain that error, the SRD does not. And even if did, the main rules text for an entry is always the primary source and overrides any information in tables. Shuriken are treated as ammo for all purposes of creation and enchantment, period.
Sorn-Toril
11-16-07, 09:37 AM Well I have a suggestion though I don't know whether you will like it or not. I was actually amazed to see this thread because I have been talking to my DM about this very thing for the past couple of weeks, and I came up with a solution that he thought was fair. Why don't you procure a pair of gloves and enchant them, treating them as you would a bow using it to enchant your shuriken. Also I can't remember the name of the item but there is an item that is basically a quiver of endless arrows, you could basically make a similar item as this for your shuriken. So basically you could have never ending enchanted shuriken for alot less than it would cost you to continuously enchant 50 shuriken with your given enchantment. Just a thought. Good Gaming.
risner
11-16-07, 02:42 PM And according to the DMG each masterwork shuriken costs 301 gp, so 50 +1 shuriken cost... 17050 gp?

No, 2,000+301 gp = 2,301 gp = 50 +1 shuriken.
Rederik
11-16-07, 02:56 PM Well I have a suggestion though I don't know whether you will like it or not. I was actually amazed to see this thread because I have been talking to my DM about this very thing for the past couple of weeks, and I came up with a solution that he thought was fair. Why don't you procure a pair of gloves and enchant them, treating them as you would a bow using it to enchant your shuriken. Also I can't remember the name of the item but there is an item that is basically a quiver of endless arrows, you could basically make a similar item as this for your shuriken. So basically you could have never ending enchanted shuriken for alot less than it would cost you to continuously enchant 50 shuriken with your given enchantment. Just a thought. Good Gaming.

I was having the same issue with a NPC who tossed alot of javelins, so I just made up a set of bracers that were enchanted as a weapon and gave their bonus to javelins. (They wouldn't work for any other thrown item.) So, great idea!
Sorn-Toril
11-16-07, 03:50 PM No, 2,000+301 gp = 2,301 gp = 50 +1 shuriken.

If I'm not mistaken in the DMG isn't each shuriken 1 gp? I think that may be what is off setting the difference between werebat's and your calculation. So 50*301=15050+2000=17050. I believe that is correct. Please tell me if I am wrong. Good Gaming.
Werebat
11-16-07, 03:53 PM While the chart in the DMG does indeed contain that error, the SRD does not. And even if did, the main rules text for an entry is always the primary source and overrides any information in tables. Shuriken are treated as ammo for all purposes of creation and enchantment, period.

Which SRD are you looking at? The one I'm looking at right now, on the wizards website, says:

Uncommon Weapons:
83-84 Shuriken +301 gp

There is no mention of 50 shuriken anywhere.

I agree that it SHOULD be 50, I just don't see it in the SRD. Is there more than one SRD for 3.5?

Check it out:

http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MagicItemsII.rtf

- Ron ^*^
Legdiwena
11-16-07, 03:58 PM According to d20srd.org

83-84 Shuriken (50) +310 gp

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#tableWeapons
Sorn-Toril
11-16-07, 03:58 PM Sorry thought someone was talking to me.
]
Werebat
11-16-07, 06:47 PM According to d20srd.org

83-84 Shuriken (50) +310 gp

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#tableWeapons

The site you linked to is not part of the Wizards site, whereas the one I did is.

Are you saying that SRD material from outside the Wizards site is more official than SRD material presented ON the Wizards site?

Curious...

- Ron ^*^
RavenDrake
11-17-07, 12:36 AM Actually yes, Werebat. If they reprinted the same error from the DMG into thier SRD, then it's STILL WRONG.

Regardless of what the refrence chart may say, the rules for shuriken say:

Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them (see Masterwork Weapons, below), and what happens to them after they are thrown.

And the section on Masterwork Weapons says:

The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition, such as an arrow).

Even if every SRD in existance all said the same thing, they'd all still be wrong if they attempted to price shuriken as anything but ammunition.
risner
11-17-07, 12:38 AM If I'm not mistaken in the DMG isn't each shuriken 1 gp? I think that may be what is off setting the difference between werebat's and your calculation. So 50*301=15050+2000=17050. I believe that is correct. Please tell me if I am wrong. Good Gaming.

17,050 is not correct.

Shuriken are priced as ammo, which comes in 50 to a bundle for one price.

I don't know how else to say it, but if you come to any conclusion other than they cost 2,000 + 300 + X where X is the cost of 50 shuriken, then you are missing something.

Looking in the PHB:
"shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of ... crafting masterwork"

Looking at the cost:
Shuriken (5) 1 gp

You then do math:
50/5 = 10
10 * 1 gp = 10 gp for 50
300 is the master work cost, so 300+10 = 310 gp

If you look at the DMG you see masterwork shuriken as 301 gp, so your DM is free to pick one. The table entry of 301 gp or the table entry of 310 gp. Pick one, don't be shy.

Once you know the cost of the Masterwork shuriken, then add 2,000 gp for making all 50 magical.

So you have 2,300+X where X is 1 if you go by DMG or 10 if you go by PHB.

I suspect the PHB was a misprint and supposed to be "Shuriken (50)" and not "Shuriken (5)"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Werebat 11-14-07, 08:23 PM	I'm confused... The text for "shuriken" says they are treated as ammunition for purposes of crafting masterwork and other special versions of them, but they are listed with the "uncommon weapons" in the section on magic weapons (not the missile weapons), and the cost seems to indicate they must be enchanted one at a time. If I want magic shuriken, how much do they cost? The book seems to indicate that one +1 shuriken would cost 2301 gp and (since it is treated as ammunition) it would be used up once thrown. This seems incredibly expensive but I don't see any other options. Help? :confused: - Ron ^*^
Legdiwena 11-14-07, 08:42 PM	Have your arcanist cast greater magic weapon on them, but it won't be permanent.
CryoSilver 11-14-07, 09:22 PM	Pick the one that makes sense. Treat them as ammunition for purposes of enhancement.
Werebat 11-14-07, 09:27 PM	Pick the one that makes sense. Treat them as ammunition for purposes of enhancement. This does indeed make sense -- but how many are enchanted in a batch? 50? This DOES make the most sense because shuriken are treated as ammunition for all other purposes... How dumb would it be to enchant a +1 Returning shuriken and then have it be destroyed the first time it hit a target? I was just wondering if this had ever been officially addressed. It seems like it should have come up somewhere before. - Ron ^*^
Legdiwena 11-14-07, 09:27 PM	No matter which route you take for crafting them. Neither is cost-effective as magic weapons due to them being destroyed on impact.
CryoSilver 11-14-07, 09:42 PM	That is true, in most cases, Greater Magic Weapon is the route to go. It costs 36,000 gp for a Wand of GMW at CL12, which produces +5 weapons. That wand will enchant 50 shuriken at a time, for 12 hours. 12 hours is probably enough time to use 50 shuriken in a dungeon crawl/grind; if you throw three per round, that's 17 rounds of combat, which is about 4 fights. In total, that's 2500 shuriken, at a cost of 14.6 gp per shuriken,including the cost of the weapon itself (2 sp). Also, these shuriken do not have to be masterwork, which saves you 6 gp per round, totalling 12000 gp in savings (enough to enhance a weapon and suit of armor to +2 each)! Total cost: 36,500 gp. To actually enchant 2500 shuriken at +5 would cost 1006.2 gp for each shuriken. Total cost: 2,515,500 gp, 68.9 times more expensive than using a wand. Therefore, even if you only use ONE SHURIKEN each time you use the wand, you still save money.
SpydaK 11-15-07, 08:21 AM	The PHB says "Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown. (PHB 121) The DMG states that the price a normal weapon enchantment is the equivalent of 50 units of ammunition (which would also include shuriken). So, if each masterwork shuriken would cost 7 gp, and enchanting 50 of them with a 1+ bonus would cost 2,000gp, then each +1 shuriken would cost 47gp, +2 would cost 167gp, +3 at 367 gp, +4 at 647 gp, +5 at 1007gp, etc. (DMG 222) As stated above, shuriken are treated as ammo for what happens to them after they are thrown. The DMG states that "When a magic arrow, crossbow bolt, or sling bullet misses its target, there is a 50% chance it breaks or is otherwise rendered useless. A magic arrow, bolt, or bullet that his is destroyed." (DMG 221) As for the wand of Greater Magic Weapon, the text for the spell reads that it "gives a weapon an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5)" (PHB 251), so a wand of CL12 would grant a +3 bonus, not a +5. A +5 would have to come from a wand made by a 20th level caster, which would cost 45,000gp (320750gp). A wand made at CL12 would cost 27,000 gp, and give a +3 bonus. The spell text also reads: "Projectiles but not thrown weapons lose their transmutation when used. (Treat shuriken as projectiles, rather than thrown weapons for the purpose of this spell.)" In other words, you'd have to use a charge of this spell for each shuriken you would want to temporarily enchant. So, if you wanted +3 shuriken, you could make each one enchanted that way for 367gp, or use one of the charges from the wand, costing 540gp, and lasting for 12 hours. However, each charge from the +5 wand would cost 900gp, versus the 1007gp for the enchants, assuming that you have a mage (or rogue with Use Magic Device) that can use the wand, and that the DM allows such a wand to come from such a powerful mage NPC (20th level). Also, if you wanted to add other enchants to the shuriken, such as seeking, flaming, holy, etc, you wouldn't be able to do so with the wand.
RavenDrake 11-15-07, 08:38 AM	You're a bit confused there, Spydak, at least in regards to the charges necessary. The spell clearly states it will affect up to 50 projectiles. And since it says that Shuriken are treated as projectiles, then a single charge from a wand will indeed affect shuriken in batches of up to 50, just like arrows or crossbow bolts. The clause you quoted(about losing it's transmutation) is there because when used, whether they break or not when thrown, they lose the magic of the spell and become mundane again.
DracoPhoenix 11-15-07, 08:44 AM	The next question is, could you create a pouch of energy? (like the psionic item energy quiver) 51,000g for 2500 +5 flaming (or what ever) shurikens seems good to me. :) (20.4g each)
risner 11-15-07, 08:57 AM	I'm confused... The text for "shuriken" says they are treated as ammunition 50 (fifty) +1 shuriken cost 2,000 gp plus masterwork costs. They are destroyed when thrown.
Legdiwena 11-15-07, 01:33 PM	Isn't there a quiver that makes any arrow put into it +1 or so for a few rounds after being withdrawn, should be easy to make a pouch that does same thing for shurikens.
Werebat 11-15-07, 06:22 PM	50 (fifty) +1 shuriken cost 2,000 gp plus masterwork costs. They are destroyed when thrown. And according to the DMG each masterwork shuriken costs 301 gp, so 50 +1 shuriken cost... 17050 gp? That seems really steep... (Seriously, DMG page 222, under "Uncommon Weapons". Compare to arrows in the "Ammunition" chart on the same page. The entry for shuriken doesn't say anything about 50 of them, compared to the one about arrows. This is true in the SRD as well.) - Ron ^*^
RavenDrake 11-16-07, 03:08 AM	And according to the DMG each masterwork shuriken costs 301 gp, so 50 +1 shuriken cost... 17050 gp? That seems really steep... (Seriously, DMG page 222, under "Uncommon Weapons". Compare to arrows in the "Ammunition" chart on the same page. The entry for shuriken doesn't say anything about 50 of them, compared to the one about arrows. This is true in the SRD as well.) - Ron ^*^ 83-84 Shuriken (50) +310 gp While the chart in the DMG does indeed contain that error, the SRD does not. And even if did, the main rules text for an entry is always the primary source and overrides any information in tables. Shuriken are treated as ammo for all purposes of creation and enchantment, period.
Sorn-Toril 11-16-07, 09:37 AM	Well I have a suggestion though I don't know whether you will like it or not. I was actually amazed to see this thread because I have been talking to my DM about this very thing for the past couple of weeks, and I came up with a solution that he thought was fair. Why don't you procure a pair of gloves and enchant them, treating them as you would a bow using it to enchant your shuriken. Also I can't remember the name of the item but there is an item that is basically a quiver of endless arrows, you could basically make a similar item as this for your shuriken. So basically you could have never ending enchanted shuriken for alot less than it would cost you to continuously enchant 50 shuriken with your given enchantment. Just a thought. Good Gaming.
risner 11-16-07, 02:42 PM	And according to the DMG each masterwork shuriken costs 301 gp, so 50 +1 shuriken cost... 17050 gp? No, 2,000+301 gp = 2,301 gp = 50 +1 shuriken.
Rederik 11-16-07, 02:56 PM	Well I have a suggestion though I don't know whether you will like it or not. I was actually amazed to see this thread because I have been talking to my DM about this very thing for the past couple of weeks, and I came up with a solution that he thought was fair. Why don't you procure a pair of gloves and enchant them, treating them as you would a bow using it to enchant your shuriken. Also I can't remember the name of the item but there is an item that is basically a quiver of endless arrows, you could basically make a similar item as this for your shuriken. So basically you could have never ending enchanted shuriken for alot less than it would cost you to continuously enchant 50 shuriken with your given enchantment. Just a thought. Good Gaming. I was having the same issue with a NPC who tossed alot of javelins, so I just made up a set of bracers that were enchanted as a weapon and gave their bonus to javelins. (They wouldn't work for any other thrown item.) So, great idea!
Sorn-Toril 11-16-07, 03:50 PM	No, 2,000+301 gp = 2,301 gp = 50 +1 shuriken. If I'm not mistaken in the DMG isn't each shuriken 1 gp? I think that may be what is off setting the difference between werebat's and your calculation. So 50*301=15050+2000=17050. I believe that is correct. Please tell me if I am wrong. Good Gaming.
Werebat 11-16-07, 03:53 PM	While the chart in the DMG does indeed contain that error, the SRD does not. And even if did, the main rules text for an entry is always the primary source and overrides any information in tables. Shuriken are treated as ammo for all purposes of creation and enchantment, period. Which SRD are you looking at? The one I'm looking at right now, on the wizards website, says: Uncommon Weapons: 83-84 Shuriken +301 gp There is no mention of 50 shuriken anywhere. I agree that it SHOULD be 50, I just don't see it in the SRD. Is there more than one SRD for 3.5? Check it out: http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/MagicItemsII.rtf - Ron ^*^
Legdiwena 11-16-07, 03:58 PM	According to d20srd.org 83-84 Shuriken (50) +310 gp http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#tableWeapons
Sorn-Toril 11-16-07, 03:58 PM	Sorry thought someone was talking to me. ]
Werebat 11-16-07, 06:47 PM	According to d20srd.org 83-84 Shuriken (50) +310 gp http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#tableWeapons The site you linked to is not part of the Wizards site, whereas the one I did is. Are you saying that SRD material from outside the Wizards site is more official than SRD material presented ON the Wizards site? Curious... - Ron ^*^
RavenDrake 11-17-07, 12:36 AM	Actually yes, Werebat. If they reprinted the same error from the DMG into thier SRD, then it's STILL WRONG. Regardless of what the refrence chart may say, the rules for shuriken say: Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them (see Masterwork Weapons, below), and what happens to them after they are thrown. And the section on Masterwork Weapons says: The masterwork quality adds 300 gp to the cost of a normal weapon (or 6 gp to the cost of a single unit of ammunition, such as an arrow). Even if every SRD in existance all said the same thing, they'd all still be wrong if they attempted to price shuriken as anything but ammunition.
risner 11-17-07, 12:38 AM	If I'm not mistaken in the DMG isn't each shuriken 1 gp? I think that may be what is off setting the difference between werebat's and your calculation. So 50301=15050+2000=17050. I believe that is correct. Please tell me if I am wrong. Good Gaming. 17,050 is not correct. Shuriken are priced as ammo, which comes in 50 to a bundle for one price. I don't know how else to say it, but if you come to any conclusion other than they cost 2,000 + 300 + X where X is the cost of 50 shuriken, then you are missing something. Looking in the PHB: "shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of ... crafting masterwork" Looking at the cost: Shuriken (5) 1 gp You then do math: 50/5 = 10 10 1 gp = 10 gp for 50 300 is the master work cost, so 300+10 = 310 gp If you look at the DMG you see masterwork shuriken as 301 gp, so your DM is free to pick one. The table entry of 301 gp or the table entry of 310 gp. Pick one, don't be shy. Once you know the cost of the Masterwork shuriken, then add 2,000 gp for making all 50 magical. So you have 2,300+X where X is 1 if you go by DMG or 10 if you go by PHB. I suspect the PHB was a misprint and supposed to be "Shuriken (50)" and not "Shuriken (5)"