costs of new wonderous items [Archive] - Wizards Community

costs of new wonderous items [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
G_Mancer
03-30-08, 05:29 PM How much would a Mantle with the folowing abilites cost?
Of Resistance +3
Of Wisdom +2
groveborn
03-30-08, 08:38 PM The resistance alone would be 9000 gp.

The Wisdom bonus alone would be 4000 gp.

You take the most expensive ability (9k), then add the rest in at 150% cost (6k), totaling 15k.

15,000 gp is the market price, half if you craft it yourself, and would require 15 days to make. The exp cost to create is 600.
Jaxgaret
03-30-08, 09:06 PM Magic Item Creation Guidelines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm).
dirkformica
03-30-08, 10:20 PM Haven't all those guidelines been updated and modified by the Magic Item Compendium? I thought I had read that there were new rules for adding additional enchantments to existing items (such as making it much easier and less costly to add bonuses to stats.)
Jaxgaret
03-30-08, 10:53 PM Haven't all those guidelines been updated and modified by the Magic Item Compendium? I thought I had read that there were new rules for adding additional enchantments to existing items (such as making it much easier and less costly to add bonuses to stats.)

Indeed. It depends on what it is exacty that you're adding, though.

And if you don't have access to the MIC, you wouldn't use its guidelines for magic item creation.
ninja1
03-31-08, 01:30 PM Yeah, the Magic Item Compendium has a table with "Common" abilities that can be added without the 50% additional cost.

Enhancement bonuses to ability scores and resistance bonuses to saves are the first that come to mind.

By those rules, you'd have 9000 gp (saves) + 4000 gp (wisdom) = 13,000gp market value.
Kursk
03-31-08, 01:41 PM Haven't all those guidelines been updated and modified by the Magic Item Compendium? I thought I had read that there were new rules for adding additional enchantments to existing items (such as making it much easier and less costly to add bonuses to stats.)

Yes, but considering that most players haven't bought into WoTC's stupid attempt to supplant the core 3.5 books (right before releasing 4.0) it's best to assume Core Rules.
ninja1
03-31-08, 02:47 PM Kursk, not to sound mean or anything.. but, really?

The Magic Item Compendium was released in March 2007. I'm willing to bet that "most" players (who could afford it) had it pre-ordered or snatched it up soon after it hit the shelves.

I disagree with you in that I believe it's best to assume Rules as Written.

Actually, assuming anything is bad, so I'd say it's best to clearly state what one wants in a thread's initial post.

Core Rules are fine, but I read many posts where the complete series is allowed, one specific campaign is ok, dragon magazine yay/nay, or no-holds-barred all splat-books allowed.

Seeing all options available, I'd bet that Core Rules only games are in the minority.

G_Mancer, until you post what your restrictions are (MIC available, yes/no), I think having more information is far better than not enough. Are you Core Rules only, or are you allowed to use the MIC?
G_Mancer
03-31-08, 02:55 PM We are allowed any greyhawk books. basically, no faerun or ebberon.
'complete's and 'races of' are allowed, as will as MIC and that sort.
No 3rd party stuff, and dragon magazine must be approved-but rarely is allowed.
Kursk
03-31-08, 02:56 PM Kursk, not to sound mean or anything.. but, really?

The Magic Item Compendium was released in March 2007. I'm willing to bet that "most" players (who could afford it) had it pre-ordered or snatched it up soon after it hit the shelves.

Out of 20 players that I play/DM & hang with, I know one who bought it. Money was no object.

It was released about a year before 4.0 is being released. It was nothing more than an attempt to get gullible fans to fork over $.
mvincent
03-31-08, 03:15 PM Kursk, not to sound mean or anything.. but, really?I'm going to have to agree with Kursk on this one. The Core rules/SRD are commonly known and easily accessible. They (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilitie s) say:
"Adding New Abilities
A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5. "

Extra rules from supplements that change this would be considered optional (especially since they are not universally available). A DM can allow it, but it's not a safe assumption they he will.

fwiw: In this case, I would not allow it (else players will simply combine everything without penalty, defeating the purpose of slots).

As for Kursk's statement of "WoTC's stupid attempt to supplant the core 3.5 books (right before releasing 4.0)"... well, I might have phrased it better, but from my research he seems to have a point. Some recent books (like the Rules Compendium) appear to contain poorly researched core changes (or possibly uncaught mistakes), despite the fact that WotC had previously declared that only errata can change the core rules, and that errata would always be free.
ninja1
03-31-08, 03:51 PM I think all of the books are an attempt to get gullible fans to fork over $...

:D

That being said, I'm sure many readers here have varied experiences with book purchases.

In my group, probably 50% of us have the MIC... but if even one of us has any given book, then 100% of us have access to it. :)

Either way, I'll stick to my earlier statement about it being better not to assume and having more info instead of not enough.

As it turns out, G_Mancer can access the MIC. Had we assumed otherwise, he'd be out another 2,000gp...

(you're welcome G_Mancer... my normal fee is 10gp...)

mvincent, I certainly agree that the Core Rules/SRD are common to all of us, but I may disagree on your "extra rules" statement.

(I say "may", because I don't remember how they were presented in the MIC)

Certain additions are absolutely optional, and are identified as such (indicated as variant for example).

I could be wrong, but aren't there other cases where rules changes were conciously made that affect RAW (besides errata)... Perhaps the inclusion of swift and immediate actions may be the best example?

fwiw: In this case, I would not allow it (else players will simply combine everything without penalty, defeating the purpose of slots). While I may not necessarily agree with their reasoning (and I'm not certain if they play-tested it at all), I give the writers credit for at least trying to explain why they adjusted the magic item costs.

It was thier intent that certain items should be combined (though not "everything").

Rather then "penalize" them, they wanted to encourage them to keep certain items from treasure and enhance them further... instead of being unceremoniously sold to fund the custom enchantment of personal items.

Also, on the related topic of adjusting the gp value of some items, I like their "supply-demand" approach to the change. Some items were "must-haves" and others were never - ever - bought.
Nathreet
04-02-08, 10:28 PM It costs whatever your DM says it costs, assuming he allows it at all. The magic item creation guidelines are just guidelines to help him decide. Oh, and the guidelines might say to increase the price even more for putting such odd things on a mantle. IMO the abilities should make sense with eachother and the slot for the item to even be allowed at all.
Merestil Haye
04-03-08, 11:54 AM The MIC item creation rules are not as liberal as has been presented in this thread.

A Mantle is a shoulder-slot item, similar to a cloak. The powers that are regarded as common powers for a shoulder slot item do not include Enhancement bonuses to Wisdom. (The only ability buff that is included in that list is Charisma enhancement).

Consequently the 50% surcharge for multiple different abilities applies even if MIC rules are in force.

The cost is therefore 15,000gp.
groveborn
04-03-08, 05:13 PM The MIC item creation rules are not as liberal as has been presented in this thread.

A Mantle is a shoulder-slot item, similar to a cloak. The powers that are regarded as common powers for a shoulder slot item do not include Enhancement bonuses to Wisdom. (The only ability buff that is included in that list is Charisma enhancement).

Consequently the 50% surcharge for multiple different abilities applies even if MIC rules are in force.

The cost is therefore 15,000gp.

I am neither agreeing, nor disagreeing with your position. I wanted only to say that a mantle is a type of robe, just sleeveless.
Merestil Haye
04-03-08, 05:33 PM I am neither agreeing, nor disagreeing with your position. I wanted only to say that a mantle is a type of robe, just sleeveless.The question isn't what the world says it is - although my understanding does not match yours. The question is what the game defines it as.

The body slot affinities table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinitie s) lists it as equivalent to a cloak or cape, something that occupies the Shoulders slot. Therefore, for the purposes of making a magic item into one, that is what you use.

Mantles are not appropriate for any ability enhancement except charisma.
mvincent
04-03-08, 05:41 PM a mantle is a type of robe, just sleeveless.The dictionaries (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mantle) say that it is a "cloak or cape"
MAdgryphon
04-03-08, 06:54 PM The dictionaries (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mantle) say that it is a "cloak or cape"

And if you want to houserule it to work that way, it will. But, in all Wizards sources I've seen, mantle fits the shoulder slot alone.
Also, mvincent, as was said recently, the new "common abilities" rules as presented in the MIC also allow each ability to be applied in only a few slots or only a single one, even. Anything beyond that, could either be denied it's creation, or adjusted to use the guidelines as written earlier.
mvincent
04-03-08, 08:21 PM And if you want to houserule it to work that way, it will.What are you talking about?

in all Wizards sources I've seen, mantle fits the shoulder slot alone. Er... yeah... the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#magicItemsOnTheBody) say:
"cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders"

Also, mvincent, as was said recently, the new "common abilities" rules as presented in the MIC also allow each ability to be applied in only a few slots or only a single one, even. Anything beyond that, could either be denied it's creation, or adjusted to use the guidelines as written earlier.Your remarks seem like non sequiturs. Again, what are you talking about? Do you believe you are contradicting an earlier statement of mine?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
G_Mancer 03-30-08, 05:29 PM	How much would a Mantle with the folowing abilites cost? Of Resistance +3 Of Wisdom +2
groveborn 03-30-08, 08:38 PM	The resistance alone would be 9000 gp. The Wisdom bonus alone would be 4000 gp. You take the most expensive ability (9k), then add the rest in at 150% cost (6k), totaling 15k. 15,000 gp is the market price, half if you craft it yourself, and would require 15 days to make. The exp cost to create is 600.
Jaxgaret 03-30-08, 09:06 PM	Magic Item Creation Guidelines (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm).
dirkformica 03-30-08, 10:20 PM	Haven't all those guidelines been updated and modified by the Magic Item Compendium? I thought I had read that there were new rules for adding additional enchantments to existing items (such as making it much easier and less costly to add bonuses to stats.)
Jaxgaret 03-30-08, 10:53 PM	Haven't all those guidelines been updated and modified by the Magic Item Compendium? I thought I had read that there were new rules for adding additional enchantments to existing items (such as making it much easier and less costly to add bonuses to stats.) Indeed. It depends on what it is exacty that you're adding, though. And if you don't have access to the MIC, you wouldn't use its guidelines for magic item creation.
ninja1 03-31-08, 01:30 PM	Yeah, the Magic Item Compendium has a table with "Common" abilities that can be added without the 50% additional cost. Enhancement bonuses to ability scores and resistance bonuses to saves are the first that come to mind. By those rules, you'd have 9000 gp (saves) + 4000 gp (wisdom) = 13,000gp market value.
Kursk 03-31-08, 01:41 PM	Haven't all those guidelines been updated and modified by the Magic Item Compendium? I thought I had read that there were new rules for adding additional enchantments to existing items (such as making it much easier and less costly to add bonuses to stats.) Yes, but considering that most players haven't bought into WoTC's stupid attempt to supplant the core 3.5 books (right before releasing 4.0) it's best to assume Core Rules.
ninja1 03-31-08, 02:47 PM	Kursk, not to sound mean or anything.. but, really? The Magic Item Compendium was released in March 2007. I'm willing to bet that "most" players (who could afford it) had it pre-ordered or snatched it up soon after it hit the shelves. I disagree with you in that I believe it's best to assume Rules as Written. Actually, assuming anything is bad, so I'd say it's best to clearly state what one wants in a thread's initial post. Core Rules are fine, but I read many posts where the complete series is allowed, one specific campaign is ok, dragon magazine yay/nay, or no-holds-barred all splat-books allowed. Seeing all options available, I'd bet that Core Rules only games are in the minority. G_Mancer, until you post what your restrictions are (MIC available, yes/no), I think having more information is far better than not enough. Are you Core Rules only, or are you allowed to use the MIC?
G_Mancer 03-31-08, 02:55 PM	We are allowed any greyhawk books. basically, no faerun or ebberon. 'complete's and 'races of' are allowed, as will as MIC and that sort. No 3rd party stuff, and dragon magazine must be approved-but rarely is allowed.
Kursk 03-31-08, 02:56 PM	Kursk, not to sound mean or anything.. but, really? The Magic Item Compendium was released in March 2007. I'm willing to bet that "most" players (who could afford it) had it pre-ordered or snatched it up soon after it hit the shelves. Out of 20 players that I play/DM & hang with, I know one who bought it. Money was no object. It was released about a year before 4.0 is being released. It was nothing more than an attempt to get gullible fans to fork over $.
mvincent 03-31-08, 03:15 PM	Kursk, not to sound mean or anything.. but, really?I'm going to have to agree with Kursk on this one. The Core rules/SRD are commonly known and easily accessible. They (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilitie s) say: "Adding New Abilities A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword. If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character’s body the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection +2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5. " Extra rules from supplements that change this would be considered optional (especially since they are not universally available). A DM can allow it, but it's not a safe assumption they he will. fwiw: In this case, I would not allow it (else players will simply combine everything without penalty, defeating the purpose of slots). As for Kursk's statement of "WoTC's stupid attempt to supplant the core 3.5 books (right before releasing 4.0)"... well, I might have phrased it better, but from my research he seems to have a point. Some recent books (like the Rules Compendium) appear to contain poorly researched core changes (or possibly uncaught mistakes), despite the fact that WotC had previously declared that only errata can change the core rules, and that errata would always be free.
ninja1 03-31-08, 03:51 PM	I think all of the books are an attempt to get gullible fans to fork over $... :D That being said, I'm sure many readers here have varied experiences with book purchases. In my group, probably 50% of us have the MIC... but if even one of us has any given book, then 100% of us have access to it. :) Either way, I'll stick to my earlier statement about it being better not to assume and having more info instead of not enough. As it turns out, G_Mancer can access the MIC. Had we assumed otherwise, he'd be out another 2,000gp... (you're welcome G_Mancer... my normal fee is 10gp...) mvincent, I certainly agree that the Core Rules/SRD are common to all of us, but I may disagree on your "extra rules" statement. (I say "may", because I don't remember how they were presented in the MIC) Certain additions are absolutely optional, and are identified as such (indicated as variant for example). I could be wrong, but aren't there other cases where rules changes were conciously made that affect RAW (besides errata)... Perhaps the inclusion of swift and immediate actions may be the best example? fwiw: In this case, I would not allow it (else players will simply combine everything without penalty, defeating the purpose of slots). While I may not necessarily agree with their reasoning (and I'm not certain if they play-tested it at all), I give the writers credit for at least trying to explain why they adjusted the magic item costs. It was thier intent that certain items should be combined (though not "everything"). Rather then "penalize" them, they wanted to encourage them to keep certain items from treasure and enhance them further... instead of being unceremoniously sold to fund the custom enchantment of personal items. Also, on the related topic of adjusting the gp value of some items, I like their "supply-demand" approach to the change. Some items were "must-haves" and others were never - ever - bought.
Nathreet 04-02-08, 10:28 PM	It costs whatever your DM says it costs, assuming he allows it at all. The magic item creation guidelines are just guidelines to help him decide. Oh, and the guidelines might say to increase the price even more for putting such odd things on a mantle. IMO the abilities should make sense with eachother and the slot for the item to even be allowed at all.
Merestil Haye 04-03-08, 11:54 AM	The MIC item creation rules are not as liberal as has been presented in this thread. A Mantle is a shoulder-slot item, similar to a cloak. The powers that are regarded as common powers for a shoulder slot item do not include Enhancement bonuses to Wisdom. (The only ability buff that is included in that list is Charisma enhancement). Consequently the 50% surcharge for multiple different abilities applies even if MIC rules are in force. The cost is therefore 15,000gp.
groveborn 04-03-08, 05:13 PM	The MIC item creation rules are not as liberal as has been presented in this thread. A Mantle is a shoulder-slot item, similar to a cloak. The powers that are regarded as common powers for a shoulder slot item do not include Enhancement bonuses to Wisdom. (The only ability buff that is included in that list is Charisma enhancement). Consequently the 50% surcharge for multiple different abilities applies even if MIC rules are in force. The cost is therefore 15,000gp. I am neither agreeing, nor disagreeing with your position. I wanted only to say that a mantle is a type of robe, just sleeveless.
Merestil Haye 04-03-08, 05:33 PM	I am neither agreeing, nor disagreeing with your position. I wanted only to say that a mantle is a type of robe, just sleeveless.The question isn't what the world says it is - although my understanding does not match yours. The question is what the game defines it as. The body slot affinities table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#bodySlotAffinitie s) lists it as equivalent to a cloak or cape, something that occupies the Shoulders slot. Therefore, for the purposes of making a magic item into one, that is what you use. Mantles are not appropriate for any ability enhancement except charisma.
mvincent 04-03-08, 05:41 PM	a mantle is a type of robe, just sleeveless.The dictionaries (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mantle) say that it is a "cloak or cape"
MAdgryphon 04-03-08, 06:54 PM	The dictionaries (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mantle) say that it is a "cloak or cape" And if you want to houserule it to work that way, it will. But, in all Wizards sources I've seen, mantle fits the shoulder slot alone. Also, mvincent, as was said recently, the new "common abilities" rules as presented in the MIC also allow each ability to be applied in only a few slots or only a single one, even. Anything beyond that, could either be denied it's creation, or adjusted to use the guidelines as written earlier.
mvincent 04-03-08, 08:21 PM	And if you want to houserule it to work that way, it will.What are you talking about? in all Wizards sources I've seen, mantle fits the shoulder slot alone. Er... yeah... the rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#magicItemsOnTheBody) say: "cloak, cape, or mantle around the shoulders" Also, mvincent, as was said recently, the new "common abilities" rules as presented in the MIC also allow each ability to be applied in only a few slots or only a single one, even. Anything beyond that, could either be denied it's creation, or adjusted to use the guidelines as written earlier.Your remarks seem like non sequiturs. Again, what are you talking about? Do you believe you are contradicting an earlier statement of mine?