Coup de Grace with a fist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Coup de Grace with a fist? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TrackStar
09-05-06, 12:30 AM Can you do it? What if your first only does subdural damage or non lethal damage?

Also, could you do it with a wand? (not use the spells but just beat someone with it?)
Jodjod
09-05-06, 12:33 AM Feeling too stupid to know by the RAW, but I would allow using fists - a hard punch to the throat would probably kill someone. I wouldn't allow a wand, however. They seem like they'd be too fragile to use as a (melee) weapon.
TrackStar
09-05-06, 12:34 AM I'd say you could break there neck but you can't do called shots...
Seerow
09-05-06, 12:41 AM But breaking the neck would be the flavor of the coup de grace. You're not making a called shot, you're performing a coup de grace, then describing it as breaking his neck if you succeed.
Roivas
09-05-06, 12:49 AM Does it really matter how the coup de grace is delivered? I find once you have them unconscious the sky is the limit.
Norsesmithy
09-05-06, 01:04 AM You can take a -4 to hit to deal lethal with your unarmed strike, a CDG is an auto hit, so you can CDG lethal unarmed for free.

Think of it as stomping on their neck.
Legdiwena
09-05-06, 02:47 AM Assuming not a monk since you can't deal lethal with your fists.
Bulletproof_Condom
09-05-06, 04:11 AM Assuming not a monk since you can't deal lethal with your fists.Yes you can.
Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll.

However a coup de grace automatically crits, so the -4 is inconsequential.

If an untrained, unarmed person really wanted to kill someone who was seriously unconscious, he could do all sorts of things with no weapons at all. Snap the neck, stomp on the neck, keep punching the temples until their head becomes mushy, drive their nosebone into their brain, break all of their ribs and try to push them through the lungs, bend them in half until their spine breaks, even smashing their head into the floor would technically count as an unarmed attack. You can do anything to someone that's helpless.
Legdiwena
09-05-06, 04:14 AM such simple brutality, need to do more complex brutality for double xp bonus
Bulletproof_Condom
09-05-06, 04:18 AM So then you use your ice breath to freeze him, kick through his neck to shatter it, sending his head way up into the air, then catch his head and throw it through his torso, shattering him completely.

Unless you'd rather play D&D.
Legdiwena
09-05-06, 04:20 AM :shocked:
savant_warlord13
09-05-06, 08:49 AM Can you do it? What if your first only does subdural damage or non lethal damage?
:rofl:
HAHAHA!!!
Contusion damage!

Please, someone with some variety of medical training back me up here so I don't look retarded.
Silverthumb128
09-05-06, 09:15 AM :rofl:
HAHAHA!!!
Contusion damage!

Please, someone with some variety of medical training back me up here so I don't look retarded.

What did 5 fingers say to the face? COUP DE GRACE!
kjenks
09-05-06, 03:26 PM Main 3.5e FAQ
===
What happens if you attempt a coup de grace with a
weapon that deals nonlethal damage, such as a sap or a
weapon with the merciful property? Is the coup de grace
still automatically a critical hit? Is the target required to
make a Fortitude save? If so, what’s the DC, and what
happens if the target fails? What happens if you use a
normally lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage as a coup
de grace?

This question takes us beyond the rules. You could rule that
you cannot deliver a coup de gace with nonlethal damage, but
if you want rules for using nonlethal damage in such an attack,
try these:

When you attempt a coup de grace with a weapon that
deals nonlethal damage, you automatically hit and inflict a
critical hit. Note that you cannot deliver a coup de grace to a
creature that is immune to critical hits. Calculate the nonlethal
damage from the resulting critical hit just as you would
normally. If the nonlethal damage isn’t sufficient to render the
subject unconscious (see page 153 in the Player’s Handbook),
the subject should make a Fortitude save (DC of 10 + the
nonlethal damage dealt). If the save fails, the subject is
rendered unconscious. The subject immediately suffers enough
nonlethal damage to make his current nonlethal damage total
equal to his current hit points +10. For example, you perform a
nonlethal coup de grace on a helpless gnoll that currently has
12 hit points. You hit the gnoll and deal 10 points of nonlethal
damage, not enough to knock out the gnoll. The gnoll,
however, must make a DC 20 Fortitude save. If the gnoll fails
the save, its nonlethal damage total immediately rises to 22
(current hit points +10), and it falls unconscious. This is
roughly the equivalent of being killed when you fail your
saving throw against a lethal coup de grace, since death occurs
at –10 hit points.
===
Illithid_Tentacles
09-05-06, 03:30 PM Yes, you can perform a coup de grace on someone while unarmed. I'll bet most people could break an unconscious person's neck, or what have you.
Silverthumb128
09-05-06, 06:35 PM Yes, you can perform a coup de grace on someone while unarmed. I'll bet most people could break an unconscious person's neck, or what have you.

I'm sure jumping on their head enough times will get it done, and they won't roll over and say "Stop it!" if they're unconcious.
Rudi_Schteppen
09-06-06, 08:33 PM I wouldn't allow a wand, however. They seem like they'd be too fragile to use as a (melee) weapon.
Who said it had to be a melee attack? I think shoving a Wand of Fireball into their face while they rest on their knees, saying a short catchphrase, then the command word for the BIG SPLATTERY FINISH! PLus, if you want to, quote Dirty Harry. :cookie: for the actor.

HAHAHA!!!
Contusion damage!

Please, someone with some variety of medical training back me up here so I don't look retarded.
HIS BRAIN IS SWELLING! HE'S GOT A HEMATOMA!
Norsesmithy
09-06-06, 09:25 PM Clint eastwood, Duh.

But I think you would be caught in the blast with a wand of fireballs, maybe a wand of melfs acid arrow.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TrackStar 09-05-06, 12:30 AM	Can you do it? What if your first only does subdural damage or non lethal damage? Also, could you do it with a wand? (not use the spells but just beat someone with it?)
Jodjod 09-05-06, 12:33 AM	Feeling too stupid to know by the RAW, but I would allow using fists - a hard punch to the throat would probably kill someone. I wouldn't allow a wand, however. They seem like they'd be too fragile to use as a (melee) weapon.
TrackStar 09-05-06, 12:34 AM	I'd say you could break there neck but you can't do called shots...
Seerow 09-05-06, 12:41 AM	But breaking the neck would be the flavor of the coup de grace. You're not making a called shot, you're performing a coup de grace, then describing it as breaking his neck if you succeed.
Roivas 09-05-06, 12:49 AM	Does it really matter how the coup de grace is delivered? I find once you have them unconscious the sky is the limit.
Norsesmithy 09-05-06, 01:04 AM	You can take a -4 to hit to deal lethal with your unarmed strike, a CDG is an auto hit, so you can CDG lethal unarmed for free. Think of it as stomping on their neck.
Legdiwena 09-05-06, 02:47 AM	Assuming not a monk since you can't deal lethal with your fists.
Bulletproof_Condom 09-05-06, 04:11 AM	Assuming not a monk since you can't deal lethal with your fists.Yes you can. Dealing Lethal Damage: You can specify that your unarmed strike will deal lethal damage before you make your attack roll, but you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. If you have the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, you can deal lethal damage with an unarmed strike without taking a penalty on the attack roll. However a coup de grace automatically crits, so the -4 is inconsequential. If an untrained, unarmed person really wanted to kill someone who was seriously unconscious, he could do all sorts of things with no weapons at all. Snap the neck, stomp on the neck, keep punching the temples until their head becomes mushy, drive their nosebone into their brain, break all of their ribs and try to push them through the lungs, bend them in half until their spine breaks, even smashing their head into the floor would technically count as an unarmed attack. You can do anything to someone that's helpless.
Legdiwena 09-05-06, 04:14 AM	such simple brutality, need to do more complex brutality for double xp bonus
Bulletproof_Condom 09-05-06, 04:18 AM	So then you use your ice breath to freeze him, kick through his neck to shatter it, sending his head way up into the air, then catch his head and throw it through his torso, shattering him completely. Unless you'd rather play D&D.
Legdiwena 09-05-06, 04:20 AM	:shocked:
savant_warlord13 09-05-06, 08:49 AM	Can you do it? What if your first only does subdural damage or non lethal damage? :rofl: HAHAHA!!! Contusion damage! Please, someone with some variety of medical training back me up here so I don't look retarded.
Silverthumb128 09-05-06, 09:15 AM	:rofl: HAHAHA!!! Contusion damage! Please, someone with some variety of medical training back me up here so I don't look retarded. What did 5 fingers say to the face? COUP DE GRACE!
kjenks 09-05-06, 03:26 PM	Main 3.5e FAQ === What happens if you attempt a coup de grace with a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, such as a sap or a weapon with the merciful property? Is the coup de grace still automatically a critical hit? Is the target required to make a Fortitude save? If so, what’s the DC, and what happens if the target fails? What happens if you use a normally lethal weapon to deal nonlethal damage as a coup de grace? This question takes us beyond the rules. You could rule that you cannot deliver a coup de gace with nonlethal damage, but if you want rules for using nonlethal damage in such an attack, try these: When you attempt a coup de grace with a weapon that deals nonlethal damage, you automatically hit and inflict a critical hit. Note that you cannot deliver a coup de grace to a creature that is immune to critical hits. Calculate the nonlethal damage from the resulting critical hit just as you would normally. If the nonlethal damage isn’t sufficient to render the subject unconscious (see page 153 in the Player’s Handbook), the subject should make a Fortitude save (DC of 10 + the nonlethal damage dealt). If the save fails, the subject is rendered unconscious. The subject immediately suffers enough nonlethal damage to make his current nonlethal damage total equal to his current hit points +10. For example, you perform a nonlethal coup de grace on a helpless gnoll that currently has 12 hit points. You hit the gnoll and deal 10 points of nonlethal damage, not enough to knock out the gnoll. The gnoll, however, must make a DC 20 Fortitude save. If the gnoll fails the save, its nonlethal damage total immediately rises to 22 (current hit points +10), and it falls unconscious. This is roughly the equivalent of being killed when you fail your saving throw against a lethal coup de grace, since death occurs at –10 hit points. ===
Illithid_Tentacles 09-05-06, 03:30 PM	Yes, you can perform a coup de grace on someone while unarmed. I'll bet most people could break an unconscious person's neck, or what have you.
Silverthumb128 09-05-06, 06:35 PM	Yes, you can perform a coup de grace on someone while unarmed. I'll bet most people could break an unconscious person's neck, or what have you. I'm sure jumping on their head enough times will get it done, and they won't roll over and say "Stop it!" if they're unconcious.
Rudi_Schteppen 09-06-06, 08:33 PM	I wouldn't allow a wand, however. They seem like they'd be too fragile to use as a (melee) weapon. Who said it had to be a melee attack? I think shoving a Wand of Fireball into their face while they rest on their knees, saying a short catchphrase, then the command word for the BIG SPLATTERY FINISH! PLus, if you want to, quote Dirty Harry. :cookie: for the actor. HAHAHA!!! Contusion damage! Please, someone with some variety of medical training back me up here so I don't look retarded. HIS BRAIN IS SWELLING! HE'S GOT A HEMATOMA!
Norsesmithy 09-06-06, 09:25 PM	Clint eastwood, Duh. But I think you would be caught in the blast with a wand of fireballs, maybe a wand of melfs acid arrow.