Coup de grace? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Coup de grace? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Serge_P
06-17-07, 06:17 AM Lets say that a beholder is talking to one party member, while that party members friend moves to a square next to the beholder. Then, suddenly, he uses that skill trick that allows you to pull a hidden weapon as a move action and treat the opponent as flat-footed, and he has deathblow which allows him to use CdG as a standard action. Can he CdG the beholder, who is talking to the friend and is unaware of the weapon and attack?

:rant: :behold: :incog:
bobothechimp
06-17-07, 08:51 AM No. Coup de Grace can only be used against a helpless opponent, and a flat-footed opponent is not helpless.
Thiez
06-17-07, 09:00 AM No. Coup de Grace can only be used against a helpless opponent, and a flat-footed opponent is not helpless.

Agreed.

If you want to deliver an unexpected killing blow, you should get Death Attack. That would work just fine in this situation.
Banatine
06-17-07, 09:02 AM yeah. fantasy physics state that you will realise that someone is about to stab you in a vital area, even if you had absolutely no idea that the attack was coming. I have had a problem with that for a while, but i just have to deal with it.
bobothechimp
06-17-07, 09:35 AM yeah. fantasy physics state that you will realise that someone is about to stab you in a vital area, even if you had absolutely no idea that the attack was coming. I have had a problem with that for a while, but i just have to deal with it.

Stabbing someone in a vital area = Sneak attack
Taking the time to get a dagger perfectly between the ribs into the heart/taking the time tip a corpse onto its back in order to use an axe to sever the head/taking time to move clothing or armor out of the way in order to slice the entire length of the throat = Coup de Grace

See the difference? A sneak attack is simply a hit to a vital area. It takes no extra time, and can be done when the target is still moving. A coup de grace is not just stabbing a vital area,but taking your time in order to be absolutely sure that the target is completely, unquestionably dead.
Banatine
06-17-07, 09:40 AM Stabbing someone in a vital area = Sneak attack
Taking the time to get a dagger perfectly between the ribs into the heart/taking the time tip a corpse onto its back in order to use an axe to sever the head/taking time to move clothing or armor out of the way in order to slice the entire length of the throat = Coup de Grace

See the difference? A sneak attack is simply a hit to a vital area. It takes no extra time, and can be done when the target is still moving. A coup de grace is not just stabbing a vital area,but taking your time in order to be absolutely sure that the target is completely, unquestionably dead.

So its the differance between a backstab and a guillotine?
bobothechimp
06-17-07, 09:44 AM Pretty much.
Serge_P
06-17-07, 10:51 AM Where can I find Deathattack?
Tyraxus
06-17-07, 11:42 AM It's a class ability; the Assassin (DMG) has it, and a few others that I can't remember at the moment. Basically you watch your opponant for three rounds and then strike (but the save DC is notoriously low by the time you get it).
lint trap
06-17-07, 02:17 PM There's a non-evil Assassin variant called the Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a). Also, there's a playable race from Sandstorm that gets Death Attack as a racial ability (I think it's a Marruspawn).
kalstrand
06-17-07, 09:59 PM yeah. fantasy physics state that you will realise that someone is about to stab you in a vital area, even if you had absolutely no idea that the attack was coming. I have had a problem with that for a while, but i just have to deal with it.

The body would generally flinch when the attack first made contact. Just the act of flinching could throw a killing stroke off by enough to ruin it. If someone is helpless they can't flinch and throw off the attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Serge_P 06-17-07, 06:17 AM	Lets say that a beholder is talking to one party member, while that party members friend moves to a square next to the beholder. Then, suddenly, he uses that skill trick that allows you to pull a hidden weapon as a move action and treat the opponent as flat-footed, and he has deathblow which allows him to use CdG as a standard action. Can he CdG the beholder, who is talking to the friend and is unaware of the weapon and attack? :rant: :behold: :incog:
bobothechimp 06-17-07, 08:51 AM	No. Coup de Grace can only be used against a helpless opponent, and a flat-footed opponent is not helpless.
Thiez 06-17-07, 09:00 AM	No. Coup de Grace can only be used against a helpless opponent, and a flat-footed opponent is not helpless. Agreed. If you want to deliver an unexpected killing blow, you should get Death Attack. That would work just fine in this situation.
Banatine 06-17-07, 09:02 AM	yeah. fantasy physics state that you will realise that someone is about to stab you in a vital area, even if you had absolutely no idea that the attack was coming. I have had a problem with that for a while, but i just have to deal with it.
bobothechimp 06-17-07, 09:35 AM	yeah. fantasy physics state that you will realise that someone is about to stab you in a vital area, even if you had absolutely no idea that the attack was coming. I have had a problem with that for a while, but i just have to deal with it. Stabbing someone in a vital area = Sneak attack Taking the time to get a dagger perfectly between the ribs into the heart/taking the time tip a corpse onto its back in order to use an axe to sever the head/taking time to move clothing or armor out of the way in order to slice the entire length of the throat = Coup de Grace See the difference? A sneak attack is simply a hit to a vital area. It takes no extra time, and can be done when the target is still moving. A coup de grace is not just stabbing a vital area,but taking your time in order to be absolutely sure that the target is completely, unquestionably dead.
Banatine 06-17-07, 09:40 AM	Stabbing someone in a vital area = Sneak attack Taking the time to get a dagger perfectly between the ribs into the heart/taking the time tip a corpse onto its back in order to use an axe to sever the head/taking time to move clothing or armor out of the way in order to slice the entire length of the throat = Coup de Grace See the difference? A sneak attack is simply a hit to a vital area. It takes no extra time, and can be done when the target is still moving. A coup de grace is not just stabbing a vital area,but taking your time in order to be absolutely sure that the target is completely, unquestionably dead. So its the differance between a backstab and a guillotine?
bobothechimp 06-17-07, 09:44 AM	Pretty much.
Serge_P 06-17-07, 10:51 AM	Where can I find Deathattack?
Tyraxus 06-17-07, 11:42 AM	It's a class ability; the Assassin (DMG) has it, and a few others that I can't remember at the moment. Basically you watch your opponant for three rounds and then strike (but the save DC is notoriously low by the time you get it).
lint trap 06-17-07, 02:17 PM	There's a non-evil Assassin variant called the Avenger (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070401a). Also, there's a playable race from Sandstorm that gets Death Attack as a racial ability (I think it's a Marruspawn).
kalstrand 06-17-07, 09:59 PM	yeah. fantasy physics state that you will realise that someone is about to stab you in a vital area, even if you had absolutely no idea that the attack was coming. I have had a problem with that for a while, but i just have to deal with it. The body would generally flinch when the attack first made contact. Just the act of flinching could throw a killing stroke off by enough to ruin it. If someone is helpless they can't flinch and throw off the attack.