Cover and Reach... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cover and Reach... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AlanBruce
02-28-06, 04:01 PM I know characters behind other characters or terrain features gain cover (+4 AC). Now, if you have a Large creature in melee with a medium sized character, and that character has someone of his size right behind him, could the Large creature reach that second character to strike him, and would that character gain the +4 AC bonus for cover? Thank you in advance.
draconic_swine
02-28-06, 05:53 PM Check out cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover) in the SRD. Reach weapons are treated as ranged weapons when it comes to cover, so characters with soft cover get the +4 bonus due soft cover. However, it may not necessarily apply in this instance. Large creatures can draw a line from any of their squares to see if cover applies to them. If only one square can have an uninterrupted line drawn between it and its target, then that target does not have cover relative to it. Note this applies both ways: the large creature doesn't have cover relative to the character either. I can't tell you for sure whether the character has the soft cover bonus without a diagram f some sort, but hopefully this will help you out.
ClementWillowbreaker
02-28-06, 08:42 PM In that specific case, the furthest Medium creature has cover, because the Large creature can't draw unbroken lines from one of his corners (and he has 11 to choose from in three dimensions) to all six of his target's corners. Normally, this is done in two dimensions, so if you want, you can do an overhead then sideways view of the arrangment, and check for cover in either of them. Same result- the first Medium creature blocks the second, namely the bottom of his cube, so the Large creature can't get a clean shot at the furthest one. The taller the creature and the more space between the two smaller ones within his threatened area, the more likely he will be able to get a clear line. In that specific case, I don't think any size creature can attack the furthest Medium without cover.
draconic_swine
03-01-06, 12:06 PM I feel stupid. I was writing a post saying how it was still possible for the furthest Medium creature to not have cover against the Large creature, because only one line from had to be clear for cover to no longer apply. Then I checked out the SRD for proof, and I noticed it said that only one blocked line was needed for there to be cover. Thanks, ClementWillowbreaker, for inadvertantly helping me realize an error of mine. That also means that a line from my last post is incorrect, so feel free to ignore it. ClementWillowbreaker has it right, the Medium creature is protected no matter what the configuration.
Talon Stormwarden
03-01-06, 01:47 PM It's a tiny bit more complicated than that I feel. The attacker chooses the corner of his square to measure from, and the defender chooses the corner of his square. So once the attacker chooses the most advantageous corner for a clear shot, the defender only has to find 1 corner that draws a blocked line.
ClementWillowbreaker
03-01-06, 04:43 PM Umm...that is a very weird way of doing almost the same thing...and the SRD's is less confusing, and works when the defender is larger than medium. The attacker always chooses which of his corners is the origin, and has to get to all four (six) corners of one of the defender's squares (cubes). This makes sure a Hill Giant can't hide behind a 3ft wall.
Nom
03-02-06, 12:20 AM For reference, the third dimension typically uses the "low obstacle" rules. In this situation, the covering medium creature counts as a low obstacle to the large creature. Because the large creature is not strictly closer to the obstacle than the opponent is it cannot go over the top without cover.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AlanBruce 02-28-06, 04:01 PM	I know characters behind other characters or terrain features gain cover (+4 AC). Now, if you have a Large creature in melee with a medium sized character, and that character has someone of his size right behind him, could the Large creature reach that second character to strike him, and would that character gain the +4 AC bonus for cover? Thank you in advance.
draconic_swine 02-28-06, 05:53 PM	Check out cover (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#cover) in the SRD. Reach weapons are treated as ranged weapons when it comes to cover, so characters with soft cover get the +4 bonus due soft cover. However, it may not necessarily apply in this instance. Large creatures can draw a line from any of their squares to see if cover applies to them. If only one square can have an uninterrupted line drawn between it and its target, then that target does not have cover relative to it. Note this applies both ways: the large creature doesn't have cover relative to the character either. I can't tell you for sure whether the character has the soft cover bonus without a diagram f some sort, but hopefully this will help you out.
ClementWillowbreaker 02-28-06, 08:42 PM	In that specific case, the furthest Medium creature has cover, because the Large creature can't draw unbroken lines from one of his corners (and he has 11 to choose from in three dimensions) to all six of his target's corners. Normally, this is done in two dimensions, so if you want, you can do an overhead then sideways view of the arrangment, and check for cover in either of them. Same result- the first Medium creature blocks the second, namely the bottom of his cube, so the Large creature can't get a clean shot at the furthest one. The taller the creature and the more space between the two smaller ones within his threatened area, the more likely he will be able to get a clear line. In that specific case, I don't think any size creature can attack the furthest Medium without cover.
draconic_swine 03-01-06, 12:06 PM	I feel stupid. I was writing a post saying how it was still possible for the furthest Medium creature to not have cover against the Large creature, because only one line from had to be clear for cover to no longer apply. Then I checked out the SRD for proof, and I noticed it said that only one blocked line was needed for there to be cover. Thanks, ClementWillowbreaker, for inadvertantly helping me realize an error of mine. That also means that a line from my last post is incorrect, so feel free to ignore it. ClementWillowbreaker has it right, the Medium creature is protected no matter what the configuration.
Talon Stormwarden 03-01-06, 01:47 PM	It's a tiny bit more complicated than that I feel. The attacker chooses the corner of his square to measure from, and the defender chooses the corner of his square. So once the attacker chooses the most advantageous corner for a clear shot, the defender only has to find 1 corner that draws a blocked line.
ClementWillowbreaker 03-01-06, 04:43 PM	Umm...that is a very weird way of doing almost the same thing...and the SRD's is less confusing, and works when the defender is larger than medium. The attacker always chooses which of his corners is the origin, and has to get to all four (six) corners of one of the defender's squares (cubes). This makes sure a Hill Giant can't hide behind a 3ft wall.
Nom 03-02-06, 12:20 AM	For reference, the third dimension typically uses the "low obstacle" rules. In this situation, the covering medium creature counts as a low obstacle to the large creature. Because the large creature is not strictly closer to the obstacle than the opponent is it cannot go over the top without cover.