Craft vs. improvised weapon. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Craft vs. improvised weapon. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Shoren
10-18-06, 06:31 PM In the players hand book there is a skill called craft. This skill allows you to make and item of a appropreate type. If you wish to develope an item it takes on third the price of the item + a skill check representing a weeks work. If you roll to low you damage your raw materials, if you roll is not enough you get nothing done but if you roll just right or more it is finnished in a lenght of time of faster. Often is the case that your weapon is going to take a week or more to finnish.

Pretty neat little skill if you have the time.

The class exotic weapond master has a ability called improvised weapon. This process only takes up to an hour. There is no base requirements to raw material. There is no failed roll out come.

What I would like to know is what kind of quality can one expect from an improvised weapon? How does it compare to an exotic weapon created with the craft skill?
draconic_swine
10-18-06, 10:53 PM I don't know the text of the exotic weapon master's ability, so I don't know how large an improvised weapon that one is able to make, but I'm going to assume that it isn't very big, which means the damage won't be very high. You can craft exotic (or even martial) weapons with pretty hefty damages. That's one disadvantage to using improvised weapons, no matter how quickly you can churn them out.

Also, improvised weapons take a -4 penalty to attack and only have a x2 crit. I'd definitely take the time to craft a proper weapon, if that time was available to me. It seems to me that the exotic weapon's master ability is meant meant to be used (and excels) in situations where you are low on time and lacking weapons to defend yourself with.
Shoren
10-20-06, 01:36 PM Intesting... I was unaware that anyone could fasion an improvised weapon. I assumed that it was a skill only an exotic weapon master could do. When in reality it is just that the exotic weapon master excells at it. You see by level five an exotic weapon master is proficant with all exotic weapons that is they actually get bonuses for using improvised weaponds and with there skill they can impovise weaponds that can do 2d6 points of damage. I guess a little common sence goes along way in my previous question. I was more or less worried about quality. I want to know how well these improvised weapons last in battle. In case a opponent has sunder. Many crafted items have a deffenate hardness and ac but an improvised weapon is a little more difficult to get an accurate impression. It is quality I am worried about. I would like to know if you can craft you favoite improvised weapon to be a master work weapon and so forth. If I can essenaly turn anything into a weapon in an hour how does this account for such weapons made with magical beast parts alive or dead?

It comes down to the question how durable can a weapon be that is made in an hour or less? can one improve in this with craft? What can I expect out of my weapons when I am an exotic weapon master?
tarkin
10-20-06, 04:03 PM Does the prestige class specifically mention allowing you to make masterwork quality?

If not, I would rule you can't, which means that the weapon is not suitable for magical enchantment.
Shoren
10-21-06, 02:33 PM It is true that there is very little said about quality to this improvised weapon skill.
What say you if this improvised weapon was made of masterwork quality objects like say a dagger tied to a stick.
It says an imporvised weapon can be made of anything your character can carry. So I assume other weaponds are far game in creating an improvised exotic weapon. If a weapon, an suit of armor or a tool can be made masterwork simply by crafting the item with one third of it's masterwork price. Can you explain how an improvised weapon cannot be masterwork? Core rule book things that can be masterworked are things like wepons, armor, wooden spoons, iron pots, bells, locks, tools.

Masterworking a weapon is simply improving and exsisting weapon and reworking it with higher quality components so that it know has exceptional quality. Certainly the item being recrafted will now fall under the time and rolling rules of the craft skill. These weapons would allways be considerd and exotic weapon so the difficulty of crafting them is some what high.
Azzy
10-21-06, 11:54 PM In the players hand book there is a skill called craft. This skill allows you to make and item of a appropreate type. If you wish to develope an item it takes on third the price of the item + a skill check representing a weeks work. If you roll to low you damage your raw materials, if you roll is not enough you get nothing done but if you roll just right or more it is finnished in a lenght of time of faster. Often is the case that your weapon is going to take a week or more to finnish.

Pretty neat little skill if you have the time.

The class exotic weapond master has a ability called improvised weapon.

The exotic weapon master in Complete Warrior has no such ability, where are you finding this?

This process only takes up to an hour. There is no base requirements to raw material. There is no failed roll out come.

What I would like to know is what kind of quality can one expect from an improvised weapon? How does it compare to an exotic weapon created with the craft skill?

I would venture to guess that the two are incomparble. A crafted weapon is made from raw materials (say, carving and tooling a club from lumber), while an improvised weapon is just turning a pre-existing item into a weapon (breaking off a table leg, driving some nails into one end and wrapping the other with leather as an impromtu morning star).
Shoren
11-01-06, 02:10 AM The exotic weapon master in Complete Warrior has no such ability, where are you finding this?).

Really Im checking it out of the Masters of the Wild guidebook. You recive the feats "improvised throwing weapons, improvised Melee weapons and Greater improvised weapons" Each feat suggest the use of "artisan tools," to create these weapons.

anyway I was hoping that there was an offical word on this subject. I can see both sides to the coin on it. I guess that's another one for a DM's desgression.
Azzy
11-01-06, 01:21 PM Really Im checking it out of the Masters of the Wild guidebook.

Ah, that'd explain it--the class has been revised for 3.5 in Complete Warrior.

Okay, back you your original questions:

What I would like to know is what kind of quality can one expect from an improvised weapon? How does it compare to an exotic weapon created with the craft skill?

The improvised weapon would have the same level of quality as a normal, non-masterwork weapon.

I was more or less worried about quality. I want to know how well these improvised weapons last in battle. In case a opponent has sunder. Many crafted items have a deffenate hardness and ac but an improvised weapon is a little more difficult to get an accurate impression.

Use the closest approximation (considering size and materials) on the various Hardness and Hit Points tables (page 166, 3.5 PHB) as normal.

It is quality I am worried about. I would like to know if you can craft you favoite improvised weapon to be a master work weapon and so forth. If I can essenaly turn anything into a weapon in an hour how does this account for such weapons made with magical beast parts alive or dead?

As the abilities of the EWM class do not suggest that you can make masterwork improvised weapons with it, you can't. Your DM may allow you to use the Craft skill to recreate these weapons--but it would use the normal crafting time as defined in the skill description.

Magical beast parts would have no bearing on the crafting (or improvising) of a weapon outside of DM fiat.

can one improve in this with craft?

No. You cannot use Craft to improve an existing item.

Masterworking a weapon is simply improving and exsisting weapon and reworking it with higher quality components so that it know has exceptional quality. Certainly the item being recrafted will now fall under the time and rolling rules of the craft skill. These weapons would allways be considerd and exotic weapon so the difficulty of crafting them is some what high.

No. Crafting a masterwork item involves crafting a new item--existing items cannot be "recrafted" to become masterwork.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shoren 10-18-06, 06:31 PM	In the players hand book there is a skill called craft. This skill allows you to make and item of a appropreate type. If you wish to develope an item it takes on third the price of the item + a skill check representing a weeks work. If you roll to low you damage your raw materials, if you roll is not enough you get nothing done but if you roll just right or more it is finnished in a lenght of time of faster. Often is the case that your weapon is going to take a week or more to finnish. Pretty neat little skill if you have the time. The class exotic weapond master has a ability called improvised weapon. This process only takes up to an hour. There is no base requirements to raw material. There is no failed roll out come. What I would like to know is what kind of quality can one expect from an improvised weapon? How does it compare to an exotic weapon created with the craft skill?
draconic_swine 10-18-06, 10:53 PM	I don't know the text of the exotic weapon master's ability, so I don't know how large an improvised weapon that one is able to make, but I'm going to assume that it isn't very big, which means the damage won't be very high. You can craft exotic (or even martial) weapons with pretty hefty damages. That's one disadvantage to using improvised weapons, no matter how quickly you can churn them out. Also, improvised weapons take a -4 penalty to attack and only have a x2 crit. I'd definitely take the time to craft a proper weapon, if that time was available to me. It seems to me that the exotic weapon's master ability is meant meant to be used (and excels) in situations where you are low on time and lacking weapons to defend yourself with.
Shoren 10-20-06, 01:36 PM	Intesting... I was unaware that anyone could fasion an improvised weapon. I assumed that it was a skill only an exotic weapon master could do. When in reality it is just that the exotic weapon master excells at it. You see by level five an exotic weapon master is proficant with all exotic weapons that is they actually get bonuses for using improvised weaponds and with there skill they can impovise weaponds that can do 2d6 points of damage. I guess a little common sence goes along way in my previous question. I was more or less worried about quality. I want to know how well these improvised weapons last in battle. In case a opponent has sunder. Many crafted items have a deffenate hardness and ac but an improvised weapon is a little more difficult to get an accurate impression. It is quality I am worried about. I would like to know if you can craft you favoite improvised weapon to be a master work weapon and so forth. If I can essenaly turn anything into a weapon in an hour how does this account for such weapons made with magical beast parts alive or dead? It comes down to the question how durable can a weapon be that is made in an hour or less? can one improve in this with craft? What can I expect out of my weapons when I am an exotic weapon master?
tarkin 10-20-06, 04:03 PM	Does the prestige class specifically mention allowing you to make masterwork quality? If not, I would rule you can't, which means that the weapon is not suitable for magical enchantment.
Shoren 10-21-06, 02:33 PM	It is true that there is very little said about quality to this improvised weapon skill. What say you if this improvised weapon was made of masterwork quality objects like say a dagger tied to a stick. It says an imporvised weapon can be made of anything your character can carry. So I assume other weaponds are far game in creating an improvised exotic weapon. If a weapon, an suit of armor or a tool can be made masterwork simply by crafting the item with one third of it's masterwork price. Can you explain how an improvised weapon cannot be masterwork? Core rule book things that can be masterworked are things like wepons, armor, wooden spoons, iron pots, bells, locks, tools. Masterworking a weapon is simply improving and exsisting weapon and reworking it with higher quality components so that it know has exceptional quality. Certainly the item being recrafted will now fall under the time and rolling rules of the craft skill. These weapons would allways be considerd and exotic weapon so the difficulty of crafting them is some what high.
Azzy 10-21-06, 11:54 PM	In the players hand book there is a skill called craft. This skill allows you to make and item of a appropreate type. If you wish to develope an item it takes on third the price of the item + a skill check representing a weeks work. If you roll to low you damage your raw materials, if you roll is not enough you get nothing done but if you roll just right or more it is finnished in a lenght of time of faster. Often is the case that your weapon is going to take a week or more to finnish. Pretty neat little skill if you have the time. The class exotic weapond master has a ability called improvised weapon. The exotic weapon master in Complete Warrior has no such ability, where are you finding this? This process only takes up to an hour. There is no base requirements to raw material. There is no failed roll out come. What I would like to know is what kind of quality can one expect from an improvised weapon? How does it compare to an exotic weapon created with the craft skill? I would venture to guess that the two are incomparble. A crafted weapon is made from raw materials (say, carving and tooling a club from lumber), while an improvised weapon is just turning a pre-existing item into a weapon (breaking off a table leg, driving some nails into one end and wrapping the other with leather as an impromtu morning star).
Shoren 11-01-06, 02:10 AM	The exotic weapon master in Complete Warrior has no such ability, where are you finding this?). Really Im checking it out of the Masters of the Wild guidebook. You recive the feats "improvised throwing weapons, improvised Melee weapons and Greater improvised weapons" Each feat suggest the use of "artisan tools," to create these weapons. anyway I was hoping that there was an offical word on this subject. I can see both sides to the coin on it. I guess that's another one for a DM's desgression.
Azzy 11-01-06, 01:21 PM	Really Im checking it out of the Masters of the Wild guidebook. Ah, that'd explain it--the class has been revised for 3.5 in Complete Warrior. Okay, back you your original questions: What I would like to know is what kind of quality can one expect from an improvised weapon? How does it compare to an exotic weapon created with the craft skill? The improvised weapon would have the same level of quality as a normal, non-masterwork weapon. I was more or less worried about quality. I want to know how well these improvised weapons last in battle. In case a opponent has sunder. Many crafted items have a deffenate hardness and ac but an improvised weapon is a little more difficult to get an accurate impression. Use the closest approximation (considering size and materials) on the various Hardness and Hit Points tables (page 166, 3.5 PHB) as normal. It is quality I am worried about. I would like to know if you can craft you favoite improvised weapon to be a master work weapon and so forth. If I can essenaly turn anything into a weapon in an hour how does this account for such weapons made with magical beast parts alive or dead? As the abilities of the EWM class do not suggest that you can make masterwork improvised weapons with it, you can't. Your DM may allow you to use the Craft skill to recreate these weapons--but it would use the normal crafting time as defined in the skill description. Magical beast parts would have no bearing on the crafting (or improvising) of a weapon outside of DM fiat. can one improve in this with craft? No. You cannot use Craft to improve an existing item. Masterworking a weapon is simply improving and exsisting weapon and reworking it with higher quality components so that it know has exceptional quality. Certainly the item being recrafted will now fall under the time and rolling rules of the craft skill. These weapons would allways be considerd and exotic weapon so the difficulty of crafting them is some what high. No. Crafting a masterwork item involves crafting a new item--existing items cannot be "recrafted" to become masterwork.