Craft Wondrous Items (3.5) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Craft Wondrous Items (3.5) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NomadicMage
11-05-06, 07:35 PM Okay, I give up on this. Usually, I am able to read enough and understand how to do something in D&D, but I need some help on this.

As a bit of background, seeing that I am new, I have been playing D&D for almost a year now, and I am currently in a game where the DM is giving us a lot of cash to build castles and whatnot (he had us find a block of platinum so big that I had to Shrink it just to carry it back to town; each of our 10 or so players got like 1.5 million gp).

Well I am trying to build a flying castle which involves a lot of magic. I have read the Stronghold Builder's Guide and have a pretty good grasp on the basic construction of it, but when it comes to magic, I want to 'do-it-myself', so to speak.

ON TO THE IMPORTANT STUFF...

My castle will have running water (and a bath that heals wounds/ailments, but that's for a later time). So I figure I want what is basically a Decanter of Endless Water, only commanded by the faucets, not a command word, and I also won't have to be able to change it to salt water. However just to make sure I was doing it right, I tried making an actual Decanter just for practice. But I can't get the price to come out right, so I must be doing something wrong.

The DMG and PHP were my primary sources of reference, but this is what I gather. The Decanter would be a Use-Activated item. Such items have their Base cost calculated as caster level x spell level x 2000gp. With this in mind, we go as such...

Caster level: 9th (as per the item description)
Spell level: 4th (as per the spell)

So we have the following formula...

9 x 4 x 2000 = 72,000gp

Now I could go ahead and figure material cost (1/2 Base price) and XP cost (1/25 Base price), and days to creation (Base/1,000). But the Base/Market price doesn't come anywhere close to the Market price for a Decanter of Endless Water, which is 9,000gp.

I've tried this with many other items and all of them come out costing far more than the listed price for the actual items... What am I doing wrong?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!
DarkRhystar
11-05-06, 07:38 PM I've tried this with many other items and all of them come out costing far more than the listed price for the actual items... What am I doing wrong?

I think it's because the decanter doesn't do exactly what control water specifies but control water was the closest thing to it. I guess it's just another example of D&D's inconsistent pricing system.
NomadicMage
11-05-06, 08:13 PM Right, right. Page 285...

If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.
And I have read that before, but it only seems to increase the price, not decrease it.

Control Water has a duration of 10 min./level, which means that we should bump that cost up from 72,000gp to 108,000gp.

This hardly helps the situation...

(EDIT: for those who don't know, he had previously told me to follow those guidelines but has since edited the post)

I think it's because the decanter doesn't do exactly what control water specifies but control water was the closest thing to it.
Ironically, a few paragraphs down in the RSD from Control Water is a seemingly more fitting spell called Create Water, which is not used...

But okay, let's use another example...

Bottle of Air
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, water breathing; Price 7,250 gp;Weight 2 lb.

Caster level: 7
Spell level: 3

7 x 3 x 2000 = 42,000gp.

See where I'm going?
Am I doing things wrong, or is Wizards?

I guess the bottom line is, how am I supposed to make Wondrous Items? Am I to pay multiple times their cost on the street to create them? It seems to me that this would make the whole process counterproductive...
risner
11-05-06, 09:38 PM See where I'm going?
Am I doing things wrong, or is Wizards?

I guess the bottom line is, how am I supposed to make Wondrous Items? Am I to pay multiple times their cost on the street to create them? It seems to me that this would make the whole process counterproductive...

You are doing things wrong.

You jumped to the LAST method of item pricing as your FIRST method.

Items are priced based on similar items, then based on other items of similar power, then based on the SLxCLxBBBB price model.
NomadicMage
11-05-06, 10:18 PM Oh, okay, thank you, Risner. I never read that anywhere, but that's what I was thinking would be logical... Is that actually a written rule, or is it unwritten?

Funny that they have all those rules for pricing and creating magical items and then don't follow them themselves... So I guess I also should base XP and time costs after the prices of similar items as well?

So creating a Decanter of Endless Water costs 4,500gp, 360XP, and 9 days to create?

Yes? No?
Gahread
11-06-06, 12:52 AM So creating a Decanter of Endless Water costs 4,500gp, 360XP, and 9 days to create?

You nailed it. There's an easier way to do what you're trying to pull off. Make a large basin at the top of your castle. You know, a watertower. :D

Mount the decanter up there. Stream will produce 14,400 gallons of fresh water per day, fountain 72,000, geyser makes 432,000. If you need more specific control, have somebody just walk over and manually turn it on and off to fill your supply.

Gravity will do everything else you need. Use some pipes to channel the water down where it's wanted and you have indoor plumbing. Put a bag of devouring at the bottom of the system for waste management to ensure you don't have to get rid of that grey/black water.
Merestil Haye
11-06-06, 09:35 AM My personal hypothesis? The person who calculated the price used Create Water as the basis. It fits the formula then.

Another point about the pricing guidelines is this. The method for pricing new items includes an "evaluation step" in which the DM is supposed to determine what level of play the item is priced for (using the wealth-by-level guidelines on p135 of the DMG) and evaluate the item's power against that baseline, then adjust the price to bring the play level in line with the item's power.

This step is especially relevant for rings, wondrous items and (maybe) rods and staffs.

Think about it. Do you really think that a Decanter of Endless Water is such a powerful item that a character needs to be 13th level to buy one, and then it would consume something over ½ his wealth? Is it really on the power level of a +3 Keen Shocking Ghost Touch weapon?
risner
11-06-06, 10:25 AM Oh, okay, thank you, Risner. I never read that anywhere, but that's what I was thinking would be logical... Is that actually a written rule, or is it unwritten?

It is a written rule in the item creation section of the DMG p282.
NomadicMage
11-06-06, 11:07 AM Okay, and I want to thank you all for helping me. I had a feeling a noob like me would be welcomed here. You guys are awesome.

There's an easier way to do what you're trying to pull off. Make a large basin at the top of your castle. You know, a watertower.

Mount the decanter up there. Stream will produce 14,400 gallons of fresh water per day, fountain 72,000, geyser makes 432,000. If you need more specific control, have somebody just walk over and manually turn it on and off to fill your supply.

Gravity will do everything else you need. Use some pipes to channel the water down where it's wanted and you have indoor plumbing. Put a bag of devouring at the bottom of the system for waste management to ensure you don't have to get rid of that grey/black water.
Right, that’s a very good idea, actually.

Okay now that the main topic is out of the way, I’d might as well give a little bit of info on what I am planning to do – see what you guys think.

First of all, the “castle” I am making will be more or less a long house on a tall platform with a tower in the middle. The purpose of this thing is to basically get us around and to give us a place to rest on longer adventures. If you want a basic concept of it, watch Howl’s Moving Castle and look at the last scene when the castle is flying (which is a reference to the book’s sequel; Howl’s Flying Castle).

I went ahead and mapped out the building and costs based on the Stronghold Builder’s Guide. The structure will stand a total of 27ss large and will cost 73,415gp for basic construction after all modifiers. This cost does not include any magic; only basic construction.

The interior will be made up of one large magical realm based off of the Magnificent Mansion spell. The interior is not physically inside the castle, and is only linked to it by the windows and doors, as in the movie (kind of).

The mansion will have running water both hot and cold which are controlled not by a word, but by the turning of the faucet. A large water tank will heat the water (another magical device for heat; I’m thinking Wall of Fire or something, because I'm too lazy to find a Fire Demon named Calcipher to coax into working for me and because I can’t do a proper Billy Crystal impression...).

Also controllable by a faucet is water that has been run through another magical device. This water will have some sort of restorative powers which I have not researched yet. I am thinking Cure Light/Moderate Wounds and something like Lesser Restoration. Any ideas on this would be appreciated.

That’s all I will mention for now except that I need to make it fly somehow. Maybe some help on how I would create such a device that could life 27ss off the ground and fly would be useful.

Ideas? Comments?
Servant_of_Metal
11-06-06, 11:21 AM As for the hot water, if you don't mind using Eberron stuff why not just bind a fire elemental in the water tank?
NomadicMage
11-06-06, 11:32 AM Well we’re playing Forgotten Realms, so I’d have to ask my DM, I guess...

But wouldn’t that pretty much... yano, kill the fire elemental? Anyways I don’t think I want to chance ticking off his relatives...
Zaistars69
11-06-06, 01:39 PM Well we’re playing Forgotten Realms, so I’d have to ask my DM, I guess...

But wouldn’t that pretty much... yano, kill the fire elemental? Anyways I don’t think I want to chance ticking off his relatives...
It doesn't kill the elemental, that's the whole point of binding. The elemental is alive and well (if not happy) and will continually fulful it's purpose.
Gahread
11-06-06, 04:57 PM Magic item abuse for hot water:

Get a 1" steel plate affixed to the bottom of your water heater. Use a tiny hammer and make it +1 flaming. Now mount it under the plate and use a clockwork mechanism powered by water flow to beat the heck out of the thing.

Hot water for everyone!

As an aside, the "CL" entry in the DMG seems to mean a lot less when read along with the errata. What DOES that mean, if it's not a caster level requirement for creating the item?!
risner
11-06-06, 05:18 PM As an aside, the "CL" entry in the DMG seems to mean a lot less when read along with the errata. What DOES that mean, if it's not a caster level requirement for creating the item?!

If the item is found in loot, that is the CL of the item.
If you make a custom item, you are free to modify the CL down if possible or up if desired. Cost will likely change to match.
Platonix
11-06-06, 08:34 PM An item's CL is the effective caster level of the magic item's effect, for purposes such as enemies trying to dispel it.
Gahread
11-07-06, 07:16 AM Huh. So unless I'm facing disjunctions, there is absolutely nothing stopping me from making a few metamagic rods of maximize as soon as I hit level 9.
Merestil Haye
11-07-06, 08:16 AM Huh. So unless I'm facing disjunctions, there is absolutely nothing stopping me from making a few metamagic rods of maximize as soon as I hit level 9.Not as far as I can see.

There are three things which the CL of an item affects. The saving throw of the unattended magic item.
The parameters (range, duration etc) of a spell cast from the item.
The DC of a caster level check to suppress the item or dispel a spell cast from the item.

The only restrictions on the caster level when making the item are that it be a maximum of your caster level and : The minimum of the level needed to be able to cast the highest level spell on the list of prereqs.
The minimum set by the power of the item (armour, shields, weapons and Bracers of Armour all have a minimum CL for a given enhancement or armour bonus).
The minimum to meet other nonspell prereqs, not including the item creation feat(s) required.I personally would allow lesser metamagic rods to be crafted with a CL of 5 or higher, and regular rods with a CL of 11 or higher.
DracoPhoenix
11-07-06, 11:12 AM I'm just agreeing with some of the above really:

I have to go with "invent indoor plumbing" - you'll need two decanters though - one hot one cold, you've mentioned your FR, so the elemental bindings out, what about psionics?
Perhaps you could develop something round the aggitate matter spell and invent the heating element too? (command word activated?)

If you want to get really clever, how about the first ever fire sprinkler systems? :)

Good call on the use of the bag of devouring, I forgot about that.
NomadicMage
11-07-06, 11:34 AM Alright, first of all, here’s how I had planned out the water. One Water Source which is split up into three pipes.

the first pipe goes straight to the faucets as clean, cold water.
The second pipe leads through the water heater.
The third pipe leads to what I call the Restorative Reservoir (more on this later).
For water heating, I was just thinking of creating a heating element Wondrous Item that can produce fire which will boil the water in the tank above it. Wall of Fire or something. I don’t know any other “fire creation” spells...

Now for the Restorative Reservoir, I have it pretty much written out, though I will show it to my DM tonight. But I would appreciate if you guys would tell me if it needs any fixing or tweaking, and I need help coming up with a Base price for it. Here’s the description:

Restorative Reservoir: A small Reservoir seems to hold about 5 gallons of water. This Reservoir is made of thick wood, bands of metal and a small metal tank inside. The Reservoir has a spout on either end; one for inflow and one for outflow, both connected to a metal pipe. Across the midsection of the tank exists a thick metal band which blesses any water passing through it. Such blessed water restores the body and cures the spirit. The water, if applied to a creature, can cure or dispel most ailments, including...

blindness
deafness
poison
curses
paralysis
diseases
ability damage
level damage
mental effects
The same water also calms the soul, soothes the body, and eases the mind. The water removes any fear condition, stabilizes dying creatures, and cures damage.

However, the restorative properties take time to act. It takes two hours to heal any debilitating or disabling affects, per affect. A character in contact with the water gains hit points equal to 4d8+10 per hour they remain in contact with the water.

Minor Transmutation, Craft Wondrous Item, cure serious wounds, greater restoration, heal, neutralize poison, remove blindness/deafness, remove disease, remove fear, remove paralysis; 10,000gp
risner
11-07-06, 01:11 PM blindness
deafness
poison
curses
paralysis
diseases
ability damage
level damage
mental effects

A character in contact with the water gains hit points equal to 4d8+10 per hour they remain in contact with the water.[/SIZE]

Minor Transmutation, Craft Wondrous Item, cure serious wounds, greater restoration, heal, neutralize poison, remove blindness/deafness, remove disease, remove fear, remove paralysis; 10,000gp[/INDENT]

The healing alone is worth much more than 20,000 (1 hp / hour) since it heals on average 28 hp an hour. A ring of regeneration is around 4 times the healing per hour, so maybe 40,000 is fair for the healing effect alone.

Rough estimate of the other effects would be 4,000 or more each (based on lesser prayer beads and other similar items.)

So:
40,000+9*4,000*(1.5 MDA) = 94,000 gp
NomadicMage
11-07-06, 03:05 PM Thank you for your estimation, Risner.

However, please keep in mind that this item will be limited to the castle, as a stationary object. The DM and I have discussed the utility of my castle’s objects, and we both agree that most of them would be far too powerful to use in a combat situation, and we have agreed to force the scope of these items to the castle alone; there will be no ripping them out of the walls and taking them into battle.

With that in mind, he said that he will actually most likely cut the cost of such items in half.

Think about it like this. We are low-teen levels, quickly climbing to Epic level (he doesn’t usually award XP anymore; he awards levels). We currently each possess around 1.3 million gold. The usefulness of a bath that can heal pretty much any ailment over the course of a few hours is dwarfed by the fact that we could simply teleport back to town and pay some cleric to cure us for, what is to us, chump change.

This bath is more of a convenience to utilize after the battle is over, and less of a “neyh-neyh, can’t hurt me, BBEG” object...

Do you think the DM should/could decrease the price for this?
risner
11-07-06, 04:33 PM Do you think the DM should/could decrease the price for this?

You DM is free to do anything he wishes.

If I were the DM under the same circumstances, I would at most decrease
the price by 1/2 to 47,000 gp due to the size of the object.
NomadicMage
11-07-06, 05:11 PM Thank you, Risner. You’ve been a lot of help to me in this topic, even if you don’t realize it. We will be playing in 50 minutes. I’ll show him all of my findings and creations. Once we get everything all flushed out, I’ll post the final stats here or in a new topic.

Thank you all for your assistance. Y’all are very kind and understanding.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NomadicMage 11-05-06, 07:35 PM	Okay, I give up on this. Usually, I am able to read enough and understand how to do something in D&D, but I need some help on this. As a bit of background, seeing that I am new, I have been playing D&D for almost a year now, and I am currently in a game where the DM is giving us a lot of cash to build castles and whatnot (he had us find a block of platinum so big that I had to Shrink it just to carry it back to town; each of our 10 or so players got like 1.5 million gp). Well I am trying to build a flying castle which involves a lot of magic. I have read the Stronghold Builder's Guide and have a pretty good grasp on the basic construction of it, but when it comes to magic, I want to 'do-it-myself', so to speak. ON TO THE IMPORTANT STUFF... My castle will have running water (and a bath that heals wounds/ailments, but that's for a later time). So I figure I want what is basically a Decanter of Endless Water, only commanded by the faucets, not a command word, and I also won't have to be able to change it to salt water. However just to make sure I was doing it right, I tried making an actual Decanter just for practice. But I can't get the price to come out right, so I must be doing something wrong. The DMG and PHP were my primary sources of reference, but this is what I gather. The Decanter would be a Use-Activated item. Such items have their Base cost calculated as caster level x spell level x 2000gp. With this in mind, we go as such... Caster level: 9th (as per the item description) Spell level: 4th (as per the spell) So we have the following formula... 9 x 4 x 2000 = 72,000gp Now I could go ahead and figure material cost (1/2 Base price) and XP cost (1/25 Base price), and days to creation (Base/1,000). But the Base/Market price doesn't come anywhere close to the Market price for a Decanter of Endless Water, which is 9,000gp. I've tried this with many other items and all of them come out costing far more than the listed price for the actual items... What am I doing wrong? Any help will be greatly appreciated!
DarkRhystar 11-05-06, 07:38 PM	I've tried this with many other items and all of them come out costing far more than the listed price for the actual items... What am I doing wrong? I think it's because the decanter doesn't do exactly what control water specifies but control water was the closest thing to it. I guess it's just another example of D&D's inconsistent pricing system.
NomadicMage 11-05-06, 08:13 PM	Right, right. Page 285... If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half. And I have read that before, but it only seems to increase the price, not decrease it. Control Water has a duration of 10 min./level, which means that we should bump that cost up from 72,000gp to 108,000gp. This hardly helps the situation... (EDIT: for those who don't know, he had previously told me to follow those guidelines but has since edited the post) I think it's because the decanter doesn't do exactly what control water specifies but control water was the closest thing to it. Ironically, a few paragraphs down in the RSD from Control Water is a seemingly more fitting spell called Create Water, which is not used... But okay, let's use another example... Bottle of Air Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, water breathing; Price 7,250 gp;Weight 2 lb. Caster level: 7 Spell level: 3 7 x 3 x 2000 = 42,000gp. See where I'm going? Am I doing things wrong, or is Wizards? I guess the bottom line is, how am I supposed to make Wondrous Items? Am I to pay multiple times their cost on the street to create them? It seems to me that this would make the whole process counterproductive...
risner 11-05-06, 09:38 PM	See where I'm going? Am I doing things wrong, or is Wizards? I guess the bottom line is, how am I supposed to make Wondrous Items? Am I to pay multiple times their cost on the street to create them? It seems to me that this would make the whole process counterproductive... You are doing things wrong. You jumped to the LAST method of item pricing as your FIRST method. Items are priced based on similar items, then based on other items of similar power, then based on the SLxCLxBBBB price model.
NomadicMage 11-05-06, 10:18 PM	Oh, okay, thank you, Risner. I never read that anywhere, but that's what I was thinking would be logical... Is that actually a written rule, or is it unwritten? Funny that they have all those rules for pricing and creating magical items and then don't follow them themselves... So I guess I also should base XP and time costs after the prices of similar items as well? So creating a Decanter of Endless Water costs 4,500gp, 360XP, and 9 days to create? Yes? No?
Gahread 11-06-06, 12:52 AM	So creating a Decanter of Endless Water costs 4,500gp, 360XP, and 9 days to create? You nailed it. There's an easier way to do what you're trying to pull off. Make a large basin at the top of your castle. You know, a watertower. :D Mount the decanter up there. Stream will produce 14,400 gallons of fresh water per day, fountain 72,000, geyser makes 432,000. If you need more specific control, have somebody just walk over and manually turn it on and off to fill your supply. Gravity will do everything else you need. Use some pipes to channel the water down where it's wanted and you have indoor plumbing. Put a bag of devouring at the bottom of the system for waste management to ensure you don't have to get rid of that grey/black water.
Merestil Haye 11-06-06, 09:35 AM	My personal hypothesis? The person who calculated the price used Create Water as the basis. It fits the formula then. Another point about the pricing guidelines is this. The method for pricing new items includes an "evaluation step" in which the DM is supposed to determine what level of play the item is priced for (using the wealth-by-level guidelines on p135 of the DMG) and evaluate the item's power against that baseline, then adjust the price to bring the play level in line with the item's power. This step is especially relevant for rings, wondrous items and (maybe) rods and staffs. Think about it. Do you really think that a Decanter of Endless Water is such a powerful item that a character needs to be 13th level to buy one, and then it would consume something over ½ his wealth? Is it really on the power level of a +3 Keen Shocking Ghost Touch weapon?
risner 11-06-06, 10:25 AM	Oh, okay, thank you, Risner. I never read that anywhere, but that's what I was thinking would be logical... Is that actually a written rule, or is it unwritten? It is a written rule in the item creation section of the DMG p282.
NomadicMage 11-06-06, 11:07 AM	Okay, and I want to thank you all for helping me. I had a feeling a noob like me would be welcomed here. You guys are awesome. There's an easier way to do what you're trying to pull off. Make a large basin at the top of your castle. You know, a watertower. Mount the decanter up there. Stream will produce 14,400 gallons of fresh water per day, fountain 72,000, geyser makes 432,000. If you need more specific control, have somebody just walk over and manually turn it on and off to fill your supply. Gravity will do everything else you need. Use some pipes to channel the water down where it's wanted and you have indoor plumbing. Put a bag of devouring at the bottom of the system for waste management to ensure you don't have to get rid of that grey/black water. Right, that’s a very good idea, actually. Okay now that the main topic is out of the way, I’d might as well give a little bit of info on what I am planning to do – see what you guys think. First of all, the “castle” I am making will be more or less a long house on a tall platform with a tower in the middle. The purpose of this thing is to basically get us around and to give us a place to rest on longer adventures. If you want a basic concept of it, watch Howl’s Moving Castle and look at the last scene when the castle is flying (which is a reference to the book’s sequel; Howl’s Flying Castle). I went ahead and mapped out the building and costs based on the Stronghold Builder’s Guide. The structure will stand a total of 27ss large and will cost 73,415gp for basic construction after all modifiers. This cost does not include any magic; only basic construction. The interior will be made up of one large magical realm based off of the Magnificent Mansion spell. The interior is not physically inside the castle, and is only linked to it by the windows and doors, as in the movie (kind of). The mansion will have running water both hot and cold which are controlled not by a word, but by the turning of the faucet. A large water tank will heat the water (another magical device for heat; I’m thinking Wall of Fire or something, because I'm too lazy to find a Fire Demon named Calcipher to coax into working for me and because I can’t do a proper Billy Crystal impression...). Also controllable by a faucet is water that has been run through another magical device. This water will have some sort of restorative powers which I have not researched yet. I am thinking Cure Light/Moderate Wounds and something like Lesser Restoration. Any ideas on this would be appreciated. That’s all I will mention for now except that I need to make it fly somehow. Maybe some help on how I would create such a device that could life 27ss off the ground and fly would be useful. Ideas? Comments?
Servant_of_Metal 11-06-06, 11:21 AM	As for the hot water, if you don't mind using Eberron stuff why not just bind a fire elemental in the water tank?
NomadicMage 11-06-06, 11:32 AM	Well we’re playing Forgotten Realms, so I’d have to ask my DM, I guess... But wouldn’t that pretty much... yano, kill the fire elemental? Anyways I don’t think I want to chance ticking off his relatives...
Zaistars69 11-06-06, 01:39 PM	Well we’re playing Forgotten Realms, so I’d have to ask my DM, I guess... But wouldn’t that pretty much... yano, kill the fire elemental? Anyways I don’t think I want to chance ticking off his relatives... It doesn't kill the elemental, that's the whole point of binding. The elemental is alive and well (if not happy) and will continually fulful it's purpose.
Gahread 11-06-06, 04:57 PM	Magic item abuse for hot water: Get a 1" steel plate affixed to the bottom of your water heater. Use a tiny hammer and make it +1 flaming. Now mount it under the plate and use a clockwork mechanism powered by water flow to beat the heck out of the thing. Hot water for everyone! As an aside, the "CL" entry in the DMG seems to mean a lot less when read along with the errata. What DOES that mean, if it's not a caster level requirement for creating the item?!
risner 11-06-06, 05:18 PM	As an aside, the "CL" entry in the DMG seems to mean a lot less when read along with the errata. What DOES that mean, if it's not a caster level requirement for creating the item?! If the item is found in loot, that is the CL of the item. If you make a custom item, you are free to modify the CL down if possible or up if desired. Cost will likely change to match.
Platonix 11-06-06, 08:34 PM	An item's CL is the effective caster level of the magic item's effect, for purposes such as enemies trying to dispel it.
Gahread 11-07-06, 07:16 AM	Huh. So unless I'm facing disjunctions, there is absolutely nothing stopping me from making a few metamagic rods of maximize as soon as I hit level 9.
Merestil Haye 11-07-06, 08:16 AM	Huh. So unless I'm facing disjunctions, there is absolutely nothing stopping me from making a few metamagic rods of maximize as soon as I hit level 9.Not as far as I can see. There are three things which the CL of an item affects. The saving throw of the unattended magic item. The parameters (range, duration etc) of a spell cast from the item. The DC of a caster level check to suppress the item or dispel a spell cast from the item. The only restrictions on the caster level when making the item are that it be a maximum of your caster level and : The minimum of the level needed to be able to cast the highest level spell on the list of prereqs. The minimum set by the power of the item (armour, shields, weapons and Bracers of Armour all have a minimum CL for a given enhancement or armour bonus). The minimum to meet other nonspell prereqs, not including the item creation feat(s) required.I personally would allow lesser metamagic rods to be crafted with a CL of 5 or higher, and regular rods with a CL of 11 or higher.
DracoPhoenix 11-07-06, 11:12 AM	I'm just agreeing with some of the above really: I have to go with "invent indoor plumbing" - you'll need two decanters though - one hot one cold, you've mentioned your FR, so the elemental bindings out, what about psionics? Perhaps you could develop something round the aggitate matter spell and invent the heating element too? (command word activated?) If you want to get really clever, how about the first ever fire sprinkler systems? :) Good call on the use of the bag of devouring, I forgot about that.
NomadicMage 11-07-06, 11:34 AM	Alright, first of all, here’s how I had planned out the water. One Water Source which is split up into three pipes. the first pipe goes straight to the faucets as clean, cold water. The second pipe leads through the water heater. The third pipe leads to what I call the Restorative Reservoir (more on this later). For water heating, I was just thinking of creating a heating element Wondrous Item that can produce fire which will boil the water in the tank above it. Wall of Fire or something. I don’t know any other “fire creation” spells... Now for the Restorative Reservoir, I have it pretty much written out, though I will show it to my DM tonight. But I would appreciate if you guys would tell me if it needs any fixing or tweaking, and I need help coming up with a Base price for it. Here’s the description: Restorative Reservoir: A small Reservoir seems to hold about 5 gallons of water. This Reservoir is made of thick wood, bands of metal and a small metal tank inside. The Reservoir has a spout on either end; one for inflow and one for outflow, both connected to a metal pipe. Across the midsection of the tank exists a thick metal band which blesses any water passing through it. Such blessed water restores the body and cures the spirit. The water, if applied to a creature, can cure or dispel most ailments, including... blindness deafness poison curses paralysis diseases ability damage level damage mental effects The same water also calms the soul, soothes the body, and eases the mind. The water removes any fear condition, stabilizes dying creatures, and cures damage. However, the restorative properties take time to act. It takes two hours to heal any debilitating or disabling affects, per affect. A character in contact with the water gains hit points equal to 4d8+10 per hour they remain in contact with the water. Minor Transmutation, Craft Wondrous Item, cure serious wounds, greater restoration, heal, neutralize poison, remove blindness/deafness, remove disease, remove fear, remove paralysis; 10,000gp
risner 11-07-06, 01:11 PM	blindness deafness poison curses paralysis diseases ability damage level damage mental effects A character in contact with the water gains hit points equal to 4d8+10 per hour they remain in contact with the water.[/SIZE] Minor Transmutation, Craft Wondrous Item, cure serious wounds, greater restoration, heal, neutralize poison, remove blindness/deafness, remove disease, remove fear, remove paralysis; 10,000gp[/INDENT] The healing alone is worth much more than 20,000 (1 hp / hour) since it heals on average 28 hp an hour. A ring of regeneration is around 4 times the healing per hour, so maybe 40,000 is fair for the healing effect alone. Rough estimate of the other effects would be 4,000 or more each (based on lesser prayer beads and other similar items.) So: 40,000+94,000(1.5 MDA) = 94,000 gp
NomadicMage 11-07-06, 03:05 PM	Thank you for your estimation, Risner. However, please keep in mind that this item will be limited to the castle, as a stationary object. The DM and I have discussed the utility of my castle’s objects, and we both agree that most of them would be far too powerful to use in a combat situation, and we have agreed to force the scope of these items to the castle alone; there will be no ripping them out of the walls and taking them into battle. With that in mind, he said that he will actually most likely cut the cost of such items in half. Think about it like this. We are low-teen levels, quickly climbing to Epic level (he doesn’t usually award XP anymore; he awards levels). We currently each possess around 1.3 million gold. The usefulness of a bath that can heal pretty much any ailment over the course of a few hours is dwarfed by the fact that we could simply teleport back to town and pay some cleric to cure us for, what is to us, chump change. This bath is more of a convenience to utilize after the battle is over, and less of a “neyh-neyh, can’t hurt me, BBEG” object... Do you think the DM should/could decrease the price for this?
risner 11-07-06, 04:33 PM	Do you think the DM should/could decrease the price for this? You DM is free to do anything he wishes. If I were the DM under the same circumstances, I would at most decrease the price by 1/2 to 47,000 gp due to the size of the object.
NomadicMage 11-07-06, 05:11 PM	Thank you, Risner. You’ve been a lot of help to me in this topic, even if you don’t realize it. We will be playing in 50 minutes. I’ll show him all of my findings and creations. Once we get everything all flushed out, I’ll post the final stats here or in a new topic. Thank you all for your assistance. Y’all are very kind and understanding.