Crammed spaces and Shields [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crammed spaces and Shields [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Man-Rata
06-03-05, 07:09 AM Just read the preview article for DMG2, and I couldn't help noticing, they forgot shields.... again.

When is it appropriat to say you cannot use a shield?

Should a Towershield be considered as a Two-Handed weapon because of size?

Can you use a shield at all in a narrow space?
Tony Vargas
06-03-05, 04:11 PM When is it appropriat to say you cannot use a shield? When you don't have one on your arm, or when you're using that arm for something else. Seriously, the way D&D treats shields, you always get the shield bonus, even when flat-footed, or (IIRC) when held, unconscious, etc - unless you bash with the shield w/o the Improved feat, or the shield is a buckler, and you attack with the hand it's on.

Now, it might be apropriate to deny a character in very close quarters to have to choose to either defend with his shield, or attack with his weapon, but not both - the idea being, you squeezing through an area so tight you can only face one arm or the other towards an opponent. This would also prevent TWF or using a THW, of course. So, you might say, if you can't TWF, you can't both attack with a weapon, and defend with a shield, but would have to do one or the other.

Should a Towershield be considered as a Two-Handed weapon because of size? It can't be used as a weapon at all.

However, you could rule-0 that it can be used to bash, but only if you use both hands, making it a two-handed weapon.

Can you use a shield at all in a narrow space? Yes.

Historically, spiral staircases in castles and such were supposed to deny an invader advancing up the staircase the use of thier shield, while allowing a defender backing up the staircase to use his. At least, that's what I've heard numerous times. D&D, though, has no space requirements for weapons or shields at all. The closest thing is that you can't use one- or two-handed weapon in a grapple (and, a light shield is a light weapon, so you /could/ bash with it in a grapple - but, that has no bearing on using it as a shield.).
Man-Rata
06-04-05, 04:12 AM Ok, I probably wasn't clear enough :)

I was talking about really crammed spaces as descriped in the DMG2 preview article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050602b&page=1

This isn't about wheter you can use a shield as a weapon or not, and just to make it clear, a Tower Shield can never be used as a weapon... ever, not even for bashing.

I was refering to the table at the bottom of the article, where they show when you can't use a THW, but I will admit I had also forgot TWF, if that should be usable is a bit questionable. Though it's an high penalty (-8/-4 or -4/-4 extra).

So can a shield be used in Cramped Spaces, and for the table, should a Tower Shield be considered a THW?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Man-Rata 06-03-05, 07:09 AM	Just read the preview article for DMG2, and I couldn't help noticing, they forgot shields.... again. When is it appropriat to say you cannot use a shield? Should a Towershield be considered as a Two-Handed weapon because of size? Can you use a shield at all in a narrow space?
Tony Vargas 06-03-05, 04:11 PM	When is it appropriat to say you cannot use a shield? When you don't have one on your arm, or when you're using that arm for something else. Seriously, the way D&D treats shields, you always get the shield bonus, even when flat-footed, or (IIRC) when held, unconscious, etc - unless you bash with the shield w/o the Improved feat, or the shield is a buckler, and you attack with the hand it's on. Now, it might be apropriate to deny a character in very close quarters to have to choose to either defend with his shield, or attack with his weapon, but not both - the idea being, you squeezing through an area so tight you can only face one arm or the other towards an opponent. This would also prevent TWF or using a THW, of course. So, you might say, if you can't TWF, you can't both attack with a weapon, and defend with a shield, but would have to do one or the other. Should a Towershield be considered as a Two-Handed weapon because of size? It can't be used as a weapon at all. However, you could rule-0 that it can be used to bash, but only if you use both hands, making it a two-handed weapon. Can you use a shield at all in a narrow space? Yes. Historically, spiral staircases in castles and such were supposed to deny an invader advancing up the staircase the use of thier shield, while allowing a defender backing up the staircase to use his. At least, that's what I've heard numerous times. D&D, though, has no space requirements for weapons or shields at all. The closest thing is that you can't use one- or two-handed weapon in a grapple (and, a light shield is a light weapon, so you /could/ bash with it in a grapple - but, that has no bearing on using it as a shield.).
Man-Rata 06-04-05, 04:12 AM	Ok, I probably wasn't clear enough :) I was talking about really crammed spaces as descriped in the DMG2 preview article http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050602b&page=1 This isn't about wheter you can use a shield as a weapon or not, and just to make it clear, a Tower Shield can never be used as a weapon... ever, not even for bashing. I was refering to the table at the bottom of the article, where they show when you can't use a THW, but I will admit I had also forgot TWF, if that should be usable is a bit questionable. Though it's an high penalty (-8/-4 or -4/-4 extra). So can a shield be used in Cramped Spaces, and for the table, should a Tower Shield be considered a THW?