Crawling to Safety. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crawling to Safety. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jack Greylock
08-15-05, 02:22 PM We had a lot of falling down in this week’s game (Rose Quarry in the Eberron: Shadows of the Last War Module) and a few questions about being prone and tumbling came up.

1. As a prone character you can only move (crawl) 5 feet with a full move action. True or False?

2. Crawling 5 feet is not the same as a free 5 foot step and does incur an attack of opportunity if you leave a threatened square. True or False?

3. Since you can only move half your speed tumbling, and your move speed while prone is 5 feet, you can not actually tumble those 5 feet. True or False?

4. Since standing from a prone position takes a move equivalent, then if use another move action to move away, if you were in a threatened square when you stood up you would theoretically incur 2 attacks of opportunity as you can not actually do a full round withdrawal. True or False?

Thanks in advance for all the great answers I know I am going to get.
Dougbert
08-15-05, 04:56 PM 1. As a prone character you can only move (crawl) 5 feet with a full move action. True or False?

If you mean crawl 5' as a move action then true.

2. Crawling 5 feet is not the same as a free 5 foot step and does incur an attack of opportunity if you leave a threatened square. True or False?

True.

3. Since you can only move half your speed tumbling, and your move speed while prone is 5 feet, you can not actually tumble those 5 feet. True or False?

By RAW, true again.

4. Since standing from a prone position takes a move equivalent, then if use another move action to move away, if you were in a threatened square when you stood up you would theoretically incur 2 attacks of opportunity as you can not actually do a full round withdrawal. True or False?

And true; one AoO for standing and one for moving. Note also that since standing from prone is a move action you cannot take a 5' step to avoid the second AoO.

Looks like you have everything covered.
Raxmei
08-15-05, 05:09 PM You can five foot step after standing up. Five foot step is only forbidden if you perform any other movement in that turn, not just any move action. The Move action, Run, Charge, and Withdraw all disallow a five foot step that turn because they all are movements.
Drawing or sheathing a weapon, mounting or dismounting a steed, Readying or loosing a shield, manipulating an item, and standing up all allow a five foot step. These are all move actions but they are not movement so they allow you to take a five foot step.
Jack Greylock
08-15-05, 07:00 PM Awesome guys, thanks for the quick replies. It is always nice to know that you made the right call.

Thanks again.
Llathos
08-15-05, 08:22 PM Hm. That makes no sense.

So imagine this scenario:

You're fighting a very powerful creature that drops you in a surprise round. You are healed by a party member, but still prone.

If you stand, you'll provoke an AoO and get killed. If you crawl, you'll provoke an AoO and get killed. You can't 5 foot step. You can't take a potion.

What CAN you do without getting yourself killed??
Immoral Sniper
08-15-05, 08:31 PM You could defensively cast a spell.

You could delay while another party member purposefully provokes an AoO, thus allowing you to stand and move away. Though Combat Reflexes tends to make this tactic more harmful than helpful.

You could delay while an allied caster casts a spell that provides cover/concealment.
xver
08-15-05, 08:39 PM For more options while knocked down or otherwise prone, use the Tumble skill.

When knocked prone, you can make a Tumble check (DC 35!) to stand for free. You bounce back up, basically. (You may have seen martial artists, gymnists, or break dancers do this.) I don't know if this provokes an AoO. I don't think so. (Avoiding AoO is the main use of Tumble by PCs in my experiance.)

When prone, you should be able your whole turn Tumbling (DC 15) to roll 5 feet without AoO. For +10 to the DC (25), you can move 10 feet (full round or 5 as a move action). You may also be able to end standing on your feet for a higher DC. (40-50?) But I'm not sure about that. Anyway, DC 25 roll back one square. Then stand.

Then again, you may take penalties to Tumble checks while prone. I didn't see any and don't personally feel they'd be appropriate given the nature of tumbling.
primemover003
08-15-05, 08:41 PM Hm. That makes no sense.

So imagine this scenario:

You're fighting a very powerful creature that drops you in a surprise round. You are healed by a party member, but still prone.

If you stand, you'll provoke an AoO and get killed. If you crawl, you'll provoke an AoO and get killed. You can't 5 foot step. You can't take a potion.

What CAN you do without getting yourself killed??
Total Defense.
Llathos
08-16-05, 09:17 AM Wow. I didn't realize the ridiculousness of tripping until now. I knew it was powerful, but I always thought you could crawl away to exit a threatened area as a balancing factor.

As it stands, two fighters in combat...the battle could almost be decided by who gets tripped first. Afterwards, standing guy gets +4 to attack (which he can convert into power attack) while prone guy can either retaliate and hope for luck (-4 to hit), or stand up and just hope he does get tripped again on the free again.

I'm gonna run out and buy steadfast boots.
Norhg
08-16-05, 10:10 AM Prone Attack (CW) lets you attack from a prone position without a penalty and if you hit you get to stand up as a free action without AoO.
Dougbert
08-16-05, 10:18 AM An awsome combo is to use your free attack to follow up a trip with a disarm or sunder against your opponen't weapon. In most cases not having a weapon takes away your only decent option while prone. As a house rule we've put in to allow standing from prone as a full-round action that does not provoke an AoO, but without outside help you can just as easily be tripped again the next round.

I'm not sure you could Tumble with a DC 15 to move 5' in an entire round. Your movement while crawling is only 5' and even though you have two move actions I don't know about movents of less than 5'. The DC 25 for Tumbling at full speed works.

Thanks, Raxmei, I missed the 5' step issue.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jack Greylock 08-15-05, 02:22 PM	We had a lot of falling down in this week’s game (Rose Quarry in the Eberron: Shadows of the Last War Module) and a few questions about being prone and tumbling came up. 1. As a prone character you can only move (crawl) 5 feet with a full move action. True or False? 2. Crawling 5 feet is not the same as a free 5 foot step and does incur an attack of opportunity if you leave a threatened square. True or False? 3. Since you can only move half your speed tumbling, and your move speed while prone is 5 feet, you can not actually tumble those 5 feet. True or False? 4. Since standing from a prone position takes a move equivalent, then if use another move action to move away, if you were in a threatened square when you stood up you would theoretically incur 2 attacks of opportunity as you can not actually do a full round withdrawal. True or False? Thanks in advance for all the great answers I know I am going to get.
Dougbert 08-15-05, 04:56 PM	1. As a prone character you can only move (crawl) 5 feet with a full move action. True or False? If you mean crawl 5' as a move action then true. 2. Crawling 5 feet is not the same as a free 5 foot step and does incur an attack of opportunity if you leave a threatened square. True or False? True. 3. Since you can only move half your speed tumbling, and your move speed while prone is 5 feet, you can not actually tumble those 5 feet. True or False? By RAW, true again. 4. Since standing from a prone position takes a move equivalent, then if use another move action to move away, if you were in a threatened square when you stood up you would theoretically incur 2 attacks of opportunity as you can not actually do a full round withdrawal. True or False? And true; one AoO for standing and one for moving. Note also that since standing from prone is a move action you cannot take a 5' step to avoid the second AoO. Looks like you have everything covered.
Raxmei 08-15-05, 05:09 PM	You can five foot step after standing up. Five foot step is only forbidden if you perform any other movement in that turn, not just any move action. The Move action, Run, Charge, and Withdraw all disallow a five foot step that turn because they all are movements. Drawing or sheathing a weapon, mounting or dismounting a steed, Readying or loosing a shield, manipulating an item, and standing up all allow a five foot step. These are all move actions but they are not movement so they allow you to take a five foot step.
Jack Greylock 08-15-05, 07:00 PM	Awesome guys, thanks for the quick replies. It is always nice to know that you made the right call. Thanks again.
Llathos 08-15-05, 08:22 PM	Hm. That makes no sense. So imagine this scenario: You're fighting a very powerful creature that drops you in a surprise round. You are healed by a party member, but still prone. If you stand, you'll provoke an AoO and get killed. If you crawl, you'll provoke an AoO and get killed. You can't 5 foot step. You can't take a potion. What CAN you do without getting yourself killed??
Immoral Sniper 08-15-05, 08:31 PM	You could defensively cast a spell. You could delay while another party member purposefully provokes an AoO, thus allowing you to stand and move away. Though Combat Reflexes tends to make this tactic more harmful than helpful. You could delay while an allied caster casts a spell that provides cover/concealment.
xver 08-15-05, 08:39 PM	For more options while knocked down or otherwise prone, use the Tumble skill. When knocked prone, you can make a Tumble check (DC 35!) to stand for free. You bounce back up, basically. (You may have seen martial artists, gymnists, or break dancers do this.) I don't know if this provokes an AoO. I don't think so. (Avoiding AoO is the main use of Tumble by PCs in my experiance.) When prone, you should be able your whole turn Tumbling (DC 15) to roll 5 feet without AoO. For +10 to the DC (25), you can move 10 feet (full round or 5 as a move action). You may also be able to end standing on your feet for a higher DC. (40-50?) But I'm not sure about that. Anyway, DC 25 roll back one square. Then stand. Then again, you may take penalties to Tumble checks while prone. I didn't see any and don't personally feel they'd be appropriate given the nature of tumbling.
primemover003 08-15-05, 08:41 PM	Hm. That makes no sense. So imagine this scenario: You're fighting a very powerful creature that drops you in a surprise round. You are healed by a party member, but still prone. If you stand, you'll provoke an AoO and get killed. If you crawl, you'll provoke an AoO and get killed. You can't 5 foot step. You can't take a potion. What CAN you do without getting yourself killed?? Total Defense.
Llathos 08-16-05, 09:17 AM	Wow. I didn't realize the ridiculousness of tripping until now. I knew it was powerful, but I always thought you could crawl away to exit a threatened area as a balancing factor. As it stands, two fighters in combat...the battle could almost be decided by who gets tripped first. Afterwards, standing guy gets +4 to attack (which he can convert into power attack) while prone guy can either retaliate and hope for luck (-4 to hit), or stand up and just hope he does get tripped again on the free again. I'm gonna run out and buy steadfast boots.
Norhg 08-16-05, 10:10 AM	Prone Attack (CW) lets you attack from a prone position without a penalty and if you hit you get to stand up as a free action without AoO.
Dougbert 08-16-05, 10:18 AM	An awsome combo is to use your free attack to follow up a trip with a disarm or sunder against your opponen't weapon. In most cases not having a weapon takes away your only decent option while prone. As a house rule we've put in to allow standing from prone as a full-round action that does not provoke an AoO, but without outside help you can just as easily be tripped again the next round. I'm not sure you could Tumble with a DC 15 to move 5' in an entire round. Your movement while crawling is only 5' and even though you have two move actions I don't know about movents of less than 5'. The DC 25 for Tumbling at full speed works. Thanks, Raxmei, I missed the 5' step issue.