Creating a variant Celestial Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creating a variant Celestial Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Quirthanon
02-02-05, 12:49 PM I would like to create a variant Celestial armor, but I need help pricing it.

This is the standard from the SRD:
Celestial Armor: This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and
light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its
presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check
penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered
light armor, weighs 20 pounds, and it allows the wearer to use fly on
command (as the spell) once per day.
Faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator
must be good, fly; Price 22,400 gp; Cost 12,550 gp + 1,004 XP.

I would like to change the Fly to Protection from Arrows which will work continuously.

I've come up with the following:
Armor, Masterwork: armor cost (150) + masterwork cost (150)= 300 gp
Armor Bonus: bonus squared (3^2)* 1,000 = 9,000 gp
Prot. From Arrows: spell level (2) * caster level (9) * 2,000 = 36,000

Which totals 45,300 gp.

Is this correct?
Quirthanon
02-03-05, 10:43 AM Out of all the people here no one wants to help me figure this out? Someone must have an idea if this is right or wrong. Lets hear their opinions.
Beamup
02-03-05, 01:04 PM It really doesn't work to modify Celestial Armor. The problem is that, if you reverse-engineer the armor carefully, it turns out that the increased Max Dex is free. That is to say, the price tag on Celestial Armor is the same as a suit of +3 mithral chainmail with a 1/day fly power. So if you allow "modified" Celestial Armor, then you end up allowing ALL magical armors to get +4 Max Dex for free. So while you can make armor similar to Celestial Armor, you really can't justify giving it the stats of Celestial Armor.

Beyond that, turning to your precise idea, what you're trying to do is get DR 10/magic against all ranged attacks. Also, note that Protection from Arrows has a duration of hours or until discharged, and the standard guidelines make no provision for how to price an "until discharged" spell being made continuous.

Because of this, pricing PfA as simply a continuous 2nd-level spell is totally inappropriate. The price for DR should be much higher than that. This item would be totally DM discretion, since I'm unaware of any magical items that grant continous DR/magic. If there are such items I don't recall ATM, it should be priced relative to them.

Personally, I'd probably price it at 100,000-150,000 or more, since DR is very powerful. It wouldn't take much at all to get me to label it an Epic item, actually.
tarkin
02-03-05, 02:03 PM I agree with BeamUp, he makes a lot of sense.

Forget about back engenering the item - but you can think about makeing a "variant". That means you can't really increase the duration. It is a strecth even allowing the DR 1/day, as DR has it's own pricing structure.

A reasonable variation of Celestial Armor might be:

Swicthing out Fly for another 3rd level (or less) spell, such as:

Protection From Arrows 1/day (your version)
Searing Light 1/day (Lathander Celestial Armor)
Water Breathing 1/day (Any water god version)
Meld into Stone 1/day (Any underground version)
Remove Blindness/Deafness 1/day (healing god version)

You MIGHT even be able to get Magic Circle against Evil 1/day, but that is pushing it as it grants a save bonus and an AC bonus that should be priced seperately. The fact that it is takes a command and is only 1/day could convince me to let you get away with it, but that is pretty close to being abusive.
Quirthanon
02-04-05, 01:58 PM +3 Mithral Chain
Bonus (+3) =(3^2)*1,000 =9,000 gp
Mithral Chain (medium armor) =4,000 + 150 = 4,150 gp
Fly (unusual slot, 1/day) = 3*5*1800/(5/1)*1.5 = 8,100 gp
Total 21,150
This includes material statistics also,
Mithral: hardness 15; hp: 30/inch of thickness

Celestial Armor Listed Cost: 22,400.00
Bonus (+3) =(3^2)*1,000 = 9,000 gp
MW Chain = 150 = 150+150 = 300 gp
Fly (unusual slot, 1/day) = 3*5*1800/(5/1)*1.5 = 8,100 gp
Subtotal: 17,400 gp
Cost of ( +6 Max DEX bonus increase, -3 Armor check penalty, 15% reduction in spell casting failure, counting as light) = 5,000.00
This includes material statistics also,
Iron or steel: 10; hp: 30/inch of thickness

So for an extra 1,250 gp, Celestial armor gets a +4 Max DEX bonus increase and a 5% reduction in Spell casting failure and a 5 point reduction in hardness. Plus the creator must be good, though I think they should change that to creator and user.

or

I could use this:
Great Invulnerability:
This suit of armor or shield grants the wearer damage reduction. The damage reduction can be 10/magic, 15/magic, 5/epic, or 10/epic, depending on the armor.
Caster Level: 19th (10/magic), 20th (15/magic), 21st (5/epic), 22nd (10/epic); Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor, stoneskin, wish, or miracle; Market Price:+4 bonus (10/magic),+5 bonus (15/magic),+6 bonus (5/epic),+7 bonus (10/epic).

Which would make this a +7 total and have DR 10/magic against all attacks.
Cost: +7 armor (49,000 gp) + Mithral chain (4,150 gp) + Fly (1/day) = 61,250 gp

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Quirthanon 02-02-05, 12:49 PM	I would like to create a variant Celestial armor, but I need help pricing it. This is the standard from the SRD: Celestial Armor: This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor, weighs 20 pounds, and it allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day. Faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be good, fly; Price 22,400 gp; Cost 12,550 gp + 1,004 XP. I would like to change the Fly to Protection from Arrows which will work continuously. I've come up with the following: Armor, Masterwork: armor cost (150) + masterwork cost (150)= 300 gp Armor Bonus: bonus squared (3^2)* 1,000 = 9,000 gp Prot. From Arrows: spell level (2) * caster level (9) * 2,000 = 36,000 Which totals 45,300 gp. Is this correct?
Quirthanon 02-03-05, 10:43 AM	Out of all the people here no one wants to help me figure this out? Someone must have an idea if this is right or wrong. Lets hear their opinions.
Beamup 02-03-05, 01:04 PM	It really doesn't work to modify Celestial Armor. The problem is that, if you reverse-engineer the armor carefully, it turns out that the increased Max Dex is free. That is to say, the price tag on Celestial Armor is the same as a suit of +3 mithral chainmail with a 1/day fly power. So if you allow "modified" Celestial Armor, then you end up allowing ALL magical armors to get +4 Max Dex for free. So while you can make armor similar to Celestial Armor, you really can't justify giving it the stats of Celestial Armor. Beyond that, turning to your precise idea, what you're trying to do is get DR 10/magic against all ranged attacks. Also, note that Protection from Arrows has a duration of hours or until discharged, and the standard guidelines make no provision for how to price an "until discharged" spell being made continuous. Because of this, pricing PfA as simply a continuous 2nd-level spell is totally inappropriate. The price for DR should be much higher than that. This item would be totally DM discretion, since I'm unaware of any magical items that grant continous DR/magic. If there are such items I don't recall ATM, it should be priced relative to them. Personally, I'd probably price it at 100,000-150,000 or more, since DR is very powerful. It wouldn't take much at all to get me to label it an Epic item, actually.
tarkin 02-03-05, 02:03 PM	I agree with BeamUp, he makes a lot of sense. Forget about back engenering the item - but you can think about makeing a "variant". That means you can't really increase the duration. It is a strecth even allowing the DR 1/day, as DR has it's own pricing structure. A reasonable variation of Celestial Armor might be: Swicthing out Fly for another 3rd level (or less) spell, such as: Protection From Arrows 1/day (your version) Searing Light 1/day (Lathander Celestial Armor) Water Breathing 1/day (Any water god version) Meld into Stone 1/day (Any underground version) Remove Blindness/Deafness 1/day (healing god version) You MIGHT even be able to get Magic Circle against Evil 1/day, but that is pushing it as it grants a save bonus and an AC bonus that should be priced seperately. The fact that it is takes a command and is only 1/day could convince me to let you get away with it, but that is pretty close to being abusive.
Quirthanon 02-04-05, 01:58 PM	+3 Mithral Chain Bonus (+3) =(3^2)1,000 =9,000 gp Mithral Chain (medium armor) =4,000 + 150 = 4,150 gp Fly (unusual slot, 1/day) = 351800/(5/1)1.5 = 8,100 gp Total 21,150 This includes material statistics also, Mithral: hardness 15; hp: 30/inch of thickness Celestial Armor Listed Cost: 22,400.00 Bonus (+3) =(3^2)1,000 = 9,000 gp MW Chain = 150 = 150+150 = 300 gp Fly (unusual slot, 1/day) = 351800/(5/1)1.5 = 8,100 gp Subtotal: 17,400 gp Cost of ( +6 Max DEX bonus increase, -3 Armor check penalty, 15% reduction in spell casting failure, counting as light) = 5,000.00 This includes material statistics also, Iron or steel: 10; hp: 30/inch of thickness So for an extra 1,250 gp, Celestial armor gets a +4 Max DEX bonus increase and a 5% reduction in Spell casting failure and a 5 point reduction in hardness. Plus the creator must be good, though I think they should change that to creator and user. or I could use this: Great Invulnerability: This suit of armor or shield grants the wearer damage reduction. The damage reduction can be 10/magic, 15/magic, 5/epic, or 10/epic, depending on the armor. Caster Level: 19th (10/magic), 20th (15/magic), 21st (5/epic), 22nd (10/epic); Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Epic Magic Arms and Armor, stoneskin, wish, or miracle; Market Price:+4 bonus (10/magic),+5 bonus (15/magic),+6 bonus (5/epic),+7 bonus (10/epic). Which would make this a +7 total and have DR 10/magic against all attacks. Cost: +7 armor (49,000 gp) + Mithral chain (4,150 gp) + Fly (1/day) = 61,250 gp