Creating magic items from old ones [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creating magic items from old ones [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Jake Tewdric
02-08-05, 08:23 AM Hello all, I DM for a group and in the couple years I have been doing so I have never once had anyone craft their own magic items.

It seems to me that for the discount that you get for doing so, the cost of xp and large amount of time is just too high a cost.

I want to address both of these issues, as I believe either one of them as they are will still discourage my players from using their own powers to equip themselves.
while this is not a problem per se, i don't think that it is truly realistic that when they come into a city, they can buy whatever they want (up to a price limit). I mean, what are the chances that even in a city of 50,000 people, there will be someone that wants to sell any specific item. if it is really good, then they are either not going to want to sell it, or they are going to have sold it in short order.

To address the time issue, i am planning to reduce the time required, but I am not sure what reduction is appropriate. Are there any of you that have done this, and how long did you make items take to be enchanted?

And to address the xp issue (this is where the title of this thread actually has some relevance) i thought of a feat that would enable a creator to 'harvest' xp a single other item to be used in the creation of another.
My idea was that for items that are very similar the creator would be able to use all the xp, for items that have vague connections, only 75% would be available and for those with no relation only 50% would be usable.

What do you think of this idea?

Have any of you tried to entice your players into self armament in other ways?

Jake
BlackFiend
02-08-05, 10:11 AM I would caution you to discourage it. It will hamper things as well. The time barrier is a needed one. I suggest instead you consider allowing the PCs lots more down time between adventures. Like several months worth.

Also, instead of magic "shops" if you will, consider the creation of a commission system. Adventurers could approach a crafter of repute in the guild and pay for certain items to be commissioned. Or they can approach the guild with a laundry list and pay their "agent" fee. The guild will go about gathering the proper individuals to gather, trade for, or even create the items.

Did this for my campaign and was received well.
TroubleWolf
02-08-05, 10:26 AM I would agree with BlackFiend, this can be a dangerous avenue to take. For instance, in the campaign I play in, there is an Artificer. All of his feats are slanted toward expediting item creation. He has two that reduce the price (one specifically for Wondrous Items, one for all items), one that reduces the time required (as well as having Dedicated Wrights that help him craft items, reducing the time further), one that reduces XP cost, etc.

As a consequence, our 10th level party is one of the most twinked-out bunch of mid-level adventurers in the land. We all have multiple +6 Stat-adjusting items, because in 3.5 you don't have to be very high level to create those, you just have to pump cash into the creation. Since (If I remember correctly) our Artificer only has to pay 9/16 of the base price, everything is easily accessible earlier than it should be.

Just a little warning that making it easier to create magic items can overpower your party if you're not careful.
tarkin
02-08-05, 12:07 PM There are three reasons why players start thinking about crafting magic items:

1) Poor DM. The DM is not letting them buy and sell magic items as intended by WoTC. So they say screw that crap, I'll make my own. The magic item creation rules were done reasonably for a moderate magic item game, that assumes magic items will be used regularly and therefore will be abailable. The "scarcity/value" arguement is stupid - look at the market for aircraft carriers and it becomes obvious that no matter HOW rare/valuable something is, there will be people trying to sell it (also remember that the people that sell the high end magic items have teleport spells, so their real market is not the town they live in but all cities in the world). If your game is low magic, you have to adjust them down - the intelligent DM can easily do this by putting in a magic item creation/sale tax - upto 15% is easy to do. If you need a higher tax, have it set by a Wizard's Guild (upto 50% is reasonable here) - they have more enforcement power than a government. If that is still not enough, you will have to put in a permanent drain, maybe -1 pt Con for each permanent magic item created, with a corresponding increase in price. A Foolish DM's don't do this and instead try to eliminate magic shops and smart players instantly take magic item creation feats to deal with the foolish DM.

2) Munckin items wanted. The players think that because the DM is allowed to approve magic items not in the book, that it means the player can design anything they want. Smart DM's say other magic items are allowed, but only ones the DM designs. Players can request the DM to design one that does x kind of thing, but that is ALL they should do. Only a DM should decide things like how many times per day, how it is activated, etc. etc. etc. The player should make it clear how they intend to use the item, not what it does, and the DM should make an item usable that way but with limitations preventing it from doing all the extra things that items can do when designed poorly.

3) Warnings: They are going up against high end monsters, realize they need an extra boost, have some time but don't have the cash.
In my opinoin, this is what you should try to encourage players to believe in order to make magic items Give them info about specific monsters they will be facing ahead of time and make it SCARY. Instead of reducing the time to make the magic item, increase the amount of off time the players have. What - you expect the players to constantly run from one crisis to another? No - they should have more than enough "down time" to create all the magic items they want.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jake Tewdric 02-08-05, 08:23 AM	Hello all, I DM for a group and in the couple years I have been doing so I have never once had anyone craft their own magic items. It seems to me that for the discount that you get for doing so, the cost of xp and large amount of time is just too high a cost. I want to address both of these issues, as I believe either one of them as they are will still discourage my players from using their own powers to equip themselves. while this is not a problem per se, i don't think that it is truly realistic that when they come into a city, they can buy whatever they want (up to a price limit). I mean, what are the chances that even in a city of 50,000 people, there will be someone that wants to sell any specific item. if it is really good, then they are either not going to want to sell it, or they are going to have sold it in short order. To address the time issue, i am planning to reduce the time required, but I am not sure what reduction is appropriate. Are there any of you that have done this, and how long did you make items take to be enchanted? And to address the xp issue (this is where the title of this thread actually has some relevance) i thought of a feat that would enable a creator to 'harvest' xp a single other item to be used in the creation of another. My idea was that for items that are very similar the creator would be able to use all the xp, for items that have vague connections, only 75% would be available and for those with no relation only 50% would be usable. What do you think of this idea? Have any of you tried to entice your players into self armament in other ways? Jake
BlackFiend 02-08-05, 10:11 AM	I would caution you to discourage it. It will hamper things as well. The time barrier is a needed one. I suggest instead you consider allowing the PCs lots more down time between adventures. Like several months worth. Also, instead of magic "shops" if you will, consider the creation of a commission system. Adventurers could approach a crafter of repute in the guild and pay for certain items to be commissioned. Or they can approach the guild with a laundry list and pay their "agent" fee. The guild will go about gathering the proper individuals to gather, trade for, or even create the items. Did this for my campaign and was received well.
TroubleWolf 02-08-05, 10:26 AM	I would agree with BlackFiend, this can be a dangerous avenue to take. For instance, in the campaign I play in, there is an Artificer. All of his feats are slanted toward expediting item creation. He has two that reduce the price (one specifically for Wondrous Items, one for all items), one that reduces the time required (as well as having Dedicated Wrights that help him craft items, reducing the time further), one that reduces XP cost, etc. As a consequence, our 10th level party is one of the most twinked-out bunch of mid-level adventurers in the land. We all have multiple +6 Stat-adjusting items, because in 3.5 you don't have to be very high level to create those, you just have to pump cash into the creation. Since (If I remember correctly) our Artificer only has to pay 9/16 of the base price, everything is easily accessible earlier than it should be. Just a little warning that making it easier to create magic items can overpower your party if you're not careful.
tarkin 02-08-05, 12:07 PM	There are three reasons why players start thinking about crafting magic items: 1) Poor DM. The DM is not letting them buy and sell magic items as intended by WoTC. So they say screw that crap, I'll make my own. The magic item creation rules were done reasonably for a moderate magic item game, that assumes magic items will be used regularly and therefore will be abailable. The "scarcity/value" arguement is stupid - look at the market for aircraft carriers and it becomes obvious that no matter HOW rare/valuable something is, there will be people trying to sell it (also remember that the people that sell the high end magic items have teleport spells, so their real market is not the town they live in but all cities in the world). If your game is low magic, you have to adjust them down - the intelligent DM can easily do this by putting in a magic item creation/sale tax - upto 15% is easy to do. If you need a higher tax, have it set by a Wizard's Guild (upto 50% is reasonable here) - they have more enforcement power than a government. If that is still not enough, you will have to put in a permanent drain, maybe -1 pt Con for each permanent magic item created, with a corresponding increase in price. A Foolish DM's don't do this and instead try to eliminate magic shops and smart players instantly take magic item creation feats to deal with the foolish DM. 2) Munckin items wanted. The players think that because the DM is allowed to approve magic items not in the book, that it means the player can design anything they want. Smart DM's say other magic items are allowed, but only ones the DM designs. Players can request the DM to design one that does x kind of thing, but that is ALL they should do. Only a DM should decide things like how many times per day, how it is activated, etc. etc. etc. The player should make it clear how they intend to use the item, not what it does, and the DM should make an item usable that way but with limitations preventing it from doing all the extra things that items can do when designed poorly. 3) Warnings: They are going up against high end monsters, realize they need an extra boost, have some time but don't have the cash. In my opinoin, this is what you should try to encourage players to believe in order to make magic items Give them info about specific monsters they will be facing ahead of time and make it SCARY. Instead of reducing the time to make the magic item, increase the amount of off time the players have. What - you expect the players to constantly run from one crisis to another? No - they should have more than enough "down time" to create all the magic items they want.