Creative grapple defenses? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Creative grapple defenses? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BlackRegiment
10-01-07, 04:35 PM I'm a Dervish, I like to move, and my GM is sadistic and likes to prevent me from moving.

- I don't have 40k for a Freedom of Movement ring.
- Close Quarters Fighting is nice but I don't know if it'll be enough.
- I tend to shy away from the plethora of 3/day things that have come out, I'm looking for something that is on all the time.

Any thoughts? I just want to not be grappled. I don't have a lot of room for Feats, and all my cash is tied up in rituals, so I can't spend a ton.

Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom :)
BlackRegiment
10-01-07, 05:15 PM So posted my thread, then didn't see it and figured I'd done it wrong, so I did it again. Apparently there is a delay? :(

Sorry for the dual post. It won't happen again :(
1 ton ghost
10-04-07, 01:42 PM Burnoose of 1,001 Thorns (MagItmComp) should help. it's totally decent, fairly affordable (3k gp) and practical in and out of grapple.

ups natural armor +1 (already existing too, allows for stack), bonus on Fort Save +4 vs. heat exhaust/dehydration/etc.
but of course, the thorns; they "sprout" 5 rnds (Swift, command) d6 dmg but it's automatic if they're grappling you or striking w/ natural weapons i believe. 1/day

it's very dervish-esque in that both have a very heavy Middle Eastern flavor.

anything to amp Escape Artist, Slick, rogue-esqe items, contact poison on your person provided you take measures to prot. yourself, etc.
RobbyPants
10-04-07, 02:02 PM Yeah, your easiest route is boosting your Dex and/or Escape Artist through the roof.

I saw a cleaver way around grappling for a Conjuration specialist (but that doesn't really help you). The immideate magic ACF from PHBII allows you to give up your familiar for an immidiate effect usable several times per day (per your Int mod). The Conjurur's ability allows him to teleport 10 feet. That will get you out of a grapple quickly.

Of course, you'd have to dip a level to do it, and I wouldn't suggest that. ;)
ScipioX
10-05-07, 03:59 AM Also keep in mind escape methods, such as blink or dimension door or shadow jaunt.
Roderick_BR
10-05-07, 07:56 AM You can get the Improved Grapple feat, for the +4 bonus to grapple, "regardless of whether you started the grapple."
silvergamgee
10-05-07, 09:45 AM Spring attack and winged boots or potions of fly make it damn difficult for anyone to grapple you. Just swoop down to attack and back out of range once you're done. Of course, if your DM is so punitive as to specifically craft creatures to neutralize you I would try talking to the DM about why he or she's acting as such. Nothing is more frustrating as a player to have a cool class ability and have it effectively summarily removed because the DM doesn't like it.
RobbyPants
10-05-07, 10:10 AM Spring attack and winged boots or potions of fly make it damn difficult for anyone to grapple you. Just swoop down to attack and back out of range once you're done. Of course, if your DM is so punitive as to specifically craft creatures to neutralize you I would try talking to the DM about why he or she's acting as such. Nothing is more frustrating as a player to have a cool class ability and have it effectively summarily removed because the DM doesn't like it.
It certainly is annoying to have a DM deliberately try to hose you. Of course, even with your tactic, all the grappler has to do is ready an action for when you get next to them. As soon as you do, he can make his attack and grapple you anyway.
1 ton ghost
10-05-07, 11:23 AM It certainly is annoying to have a DM deliberately try to hose you. Of course, even with your tactic, all the grappler has to do is ready an action for when you get next to them. As soon as you do, he can make his attack and grapple you anyway.

that is a decent example, but an isolated incident nonetheless.
best anti-grapple is usually the conservative bet or the simplest. if the solution is too specific, has too many conditions, it's not as likely to work as often. no easy way to up BAB/Grapple.
typically, keep your rogue handy if your boy gets twisted up so they can SA the Hell out of them. probably easiest fix.
everyone wants to know what their PC alone can do, but team mentality and having one's back beats any magic item or (Su)/(Sp)/(Ex) individually hands down.
i mean, you always protect your casters, yes? give assists to the rogue here and there? etc. etc.
it's you...or the "prefab 4": 1 tank (full BAB), 1 divine (druid/cleric), 1 expert (rogue/scout/etc), 1 arcane (any magi)

having your DM custom fit enemies/encounters to undo specifics works/abilities/gear on their end sucks. game balance is foremost. when in doubt though, survey the other players to see what's fair, who's outta' line, etc.
on the other hand, i've seen a million power gamers (PCs) that destory carefully arranged plots and play like they're taking Statistics again in school. crush this mentality! ie)they just have numbers and letters on paper, no soul...always trusting in ability 'x', never problem-solving or using any upper brain function. this fosters a degree of laziness then arrogance on their behalf, ultimately leading to a confrontation vs. DM cuz' "it's always worked before" and bla bla bla...
this is particularly frustrating when they begin exploiting a character design loophole but it is easilly remedied in some respects:

-everyone wants goliaths & Powerful Build for large weapons (phallic inadequacies ;) ). these don't work well in the underdark/some mountainous/urban environs where room is at a premium. enemy doesn't need a special attack, just a brain to know when to withdraw into a rockhouse or low cave.
-undead can kick alot of ass...until their Turned/Rebuked
-Hide, Hide in Plain Sight, etc., are irrelevant if neither party can see (blindness/dark)
-super spell in play that monster is cognizant of? have them wait out the clock from a safe vantage then return. simple.
BW0222
10-05-07, 02:18 PM BlackRegiment,

I'm a Dervish, I like to move, and my GM is sadistic and likes to prevent me from moving.

You can't win if your DM is honestly out to get you.

Any thoughts? I just want to not be grappled. I don't have a lot of room for Feats, and all my cash is tied up in rituals, so I can't spend a ton.

There aren't a lot of ways to prevent from being grappled.
* Travel domain
* Freedom of movement
* Scrolls of freedom of movement (and someone able to cast them)
* D-door

However, you might like at ways to discourage folks from grabbling you.
* Stay close to a PC rogue, or just lots of other PCs.
* Armor spikes
* Fire shield or other spells.
* Really high touch AC or defenses such as mirror image, displacement, invisibility, etc.

You can also just use tatics to make being grappled harder. For example, ready an action to tumble away when someone attempts to grapple you. Make sure they can't reach you -- fly, spider climb, etc.
RobbyPants
10-05-07, 02:56 PM everyone wants to know what their PC alone can do, but team mentality and having one's back beats any magic item or (Su)/(Sp)/(Ex) individually hands down.
This is a very good point. I've seen too many games where it seems to become an informal contest between each player. It's nice to see a group work well together.

I'm running a game with a Beguiller/Conjurer heading for Ultimate Magus. In a fight against over a dozen goblins (one a spellcaster), he dropped a few battle-field control spells. Up until the last round, he didn't do any damage with his spells, but rather, hinder the enemies, keeping some of them from acting for several turns. In the end, his spells probably saved more HP damage than what the cleric could have healed using the same spell slots. Did he gloriously take on the army himself? No. Did his actions enable the team to do a better job as a whole? Yes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BlackRegiment 10-01-07, 04:35 PM	I'm a Dervish, I like to move, and my GM is sadistic and likes to prevent me from moving. - I don't have 40k for a Freedom of Movement ring. - Close Quarters Fighting is nice but I don't know if it'll be enough. - I tend to shy away from the plethora of 3/day things that have come out, I'm looking for something that is on all the time. Any thoughts? I just want to not be grappled. I don't have a lot of room for Feats, and all my cash is tied up in rituals, so I can't spend a ton. Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom :)
BlackRegiment 10-01-07, 05:15 PM	So posted my thread, then didn't see it and figured I'd done it wrong, so I did it again. Apparently there is a delay? :( Sorry for the dual post. It won't happen again :(
1 ton ghost 10-04-07, 01:42 PM	Burnoose of 1,001 Thorns (MagItmComp) should help. it's totally decent, fairly affordable (3k gp) and practical in and out of grapple. ups natural armor +1 (already existing too, allows for stack), bonus on Fort Save +4 vs. heat exhaust/dehydration/etc. but of course, the thorns; they "sprout" 5 rnds (Swift, command) d6 dmg but it's automatic if they're grappling you or striking w/ natural weapons i believe. 1/day it's very dervish-esque in that both have a very heavy Middle Eastern flavor. anything to amp Escape Artist, Slick, rogue-esqe items, contact poison on your person provided you take measures to prot. yourself, etc.
RobbyPants 10-04-07, 02:02 PM	Yeah, your easiest route is boosting your Dex and/or Escape Artist through the roof. I saw a cleaver way around grappling for a Conjuration specialist (but that doesn't really help you). The immideate magic ACF from PHBII allows you to give up your familiar for an immidiate effect usable several times per day (per your Int mod). The Conjurur's ability allows him to teleport 10 feet. That will get you out of a grapple quickly. Of course, you'd have to dip a level to do it, and I wouldn't suggest that. ;)
ScipioX 10-05-07, 03:59 AM	Also keep in mind escape methods, such as blink or dimension door or shadow jaunt.
Roderick_BR 10-05-07, 07:56 AM	You can get the Improved Grapple feat, for the +4 bonus to grapple, "regardless of whether you started the grapple."
silvergamgee 10-05-07, 09:45 AM	Spring attack and winged boots or potions of fly make it damn difficult for anyone to grapple you. Just swoop down to attack and back out of range once you're done. Of course, if your DM is so punitive as to specifically craft creatures to neutralize you I would try talking to the DM about why he or she's acting as such. Nothing is more frustrating as a player to have a cool class ability and have it effectively summarily removed because the DM doesn't like it.
RobbyPants 10-05-07, 10:10 AM	Spring attack and winged boots or potions of fly make it damn difficult for anyone to grapple you. Just swoop down to attack and back out of range once you're done. Of course, if your DM is so punitive as to specifically craft creatures to neutralize you I would try talking to the DM about why he or she's acting as such. Nothing is more frustrating as a player to have a cool class ability and have it effectively summarily removed because the DM doesn't like it. It certainly is annoying to have a DM deliberately try to hose you. Of course, even with your tactic, all the grappler has to do is ready an action for when you get next to them. As soon as you do, he can make his attack and grapple you anyway.
1 ton ghost 10-05-07, 11:23 AM	It certainly is annoying to have a DM deliberately try to hose you. Of course, even with your tactic, all the grappler has to do is ready an action for when you get next to them. As soon as you do, he can make his attack and grapple you anyway. that is a decent example, but an isolated incident nonetheless. best anti-grapple is usually the conservative bet or the simplest. if the solution is too specific, has too many conditions, it's not as likely to work as often. no easy way to up BAB/Grapple. typically, keep your rogue handy if your boy gets twisted up so they can SA the Hell out of them. probably easiest fix. everyone wants to know what their PC alone can do, but team mentality and having one's back beats any magic item or (Su)/(Sp)/(Ex) individually hands down. i mean, you always protect your casters, yes? give assists to the rogue here and there? etc. etc. it's you...or the "prefab 4": 1 tank (full BAB), 1 divine (druid/cleric), 1 expert (rogue/scout/etc), 1 arcane (any magi) having your DM custom fit enemies/encounters to undo specifics works/abilities/gear on their end sucks. game balance is foremost. when in doubt though, survey the other players to see what's fair, who's outta' line, etc. on the other hand, i've seen a million power gamers (PCs) that destory carefully arranged plots and play like they're taking Statistics again in school. crush this mentality! ie)they just have numbers and letters on paper, no soul...always trusting in ability 'x', never problem-solving or using any upper brain function. this fosters a degree of laziness then arrogance on their behalf, ultimately leading to a confrontation vs. DM cuz' "it's always worked before" and bla bla bla... this is particularly frustrating when they begin exploiting a character design loophole but it is easilly remedied in some respects: -everyone wants goliaths & Powerful Build for large weapons (phallic inadequacies ;) ). these don't work well in the underdark/some mountainous/urban environs where room is at a premium. enemy doesn't need a special attack, just a brain to know when to withdraw into a rockhouse or low cave. -undead can kick alot of ass...until their Turned/Rebuked -Hide, Hide in Plain Sight, etc., are irrelevant if neither party can see (blindness/dark) -super spell in play that monster is cognizant of? have them wait out the clock from a safe vantage then return. simple.
BW0222 10-05-07, 02:18 PM	BlackRegiment, I'm a Dervish, I like to move, and my GM is sadistic and likes to prevent me from moving. You can't win if your DM is honestly out to get you. Any thoughts? I just want to not be grappled. I don't have a lot of room for Feats, and all my cash is tied up in rituals, so I can't spend a ton. There aren't a lot of ways to prevent from being grappled. * Travel domain * Freedom of movement * Scrolls of freedom of movement (and someone able to cast them) * D-door However, you might like at ways to discourage folks from grabbling you. * Stay close to a PC rogue, or just lots of other PCs. * Armor spikes * Fire shield or other spells. * Really high touch AC or defenses such as mirror image, displacement, invisibility, etc. You can also just use tatics to make being grappled harder. For example, ready an action to tumble away when someone attempts to grapple you. Make sure they can't reach you -- fly, spider climb, etc.
RobbyPants 10-05-07, 02:56 PM	everyone wants to know what their PC alone can do, but team mentality and having one's back beats any magic item or (Su)/(Sp)/(Ex) individually hands down. This is a very good point. I've seen too many games where it seems to become an informal contest between each player. It's nice to see a group work well together. I'm running a game with a Beguiller/Conjurer heading for Ultimate Magus. In a fight against over a dozen goblins (one a spellcaster), he dropped a few battle-field control spells. Up until the last round, he didn't do any damage with his spells, but rather, hinder the enemies, keeping some of them from acting for several turns. In the end, his spells probably saved more HP damage than what the cleric could have healed using the same spell slots. Did he gloriously take on the army himself? No. Did his actions enable the team to do a better job as a whole? Yes.