Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shadowfax7 08-02-06, 10:42 PM	Does a humanoid deer-like creature wielding a 2h spear, having a natural gore attack from its antlers and who is the equivalent of a 15th level Ranger (BAB +15/+10/+5) make 3 attacks with its spear and 1 attack with its antlers at -5 (as a secondary natural attack) ??
runestar 08-02-06, 10:51 PM	Yep. :)
DemonMonkeyBoy 08-03-06, 12:55 AM	I'll seconded that motion
kjenks 08-03-06, 05:53 AM	FAQ says yes.
Shadowfax7 08-03-06, 11:21 AM	Thanx . . . and the -5 on the antler attack is correct as well, right ?? Also, the antler attack uses only 1/2 the damage bonus, right ??
runestar 08-03-06, 12:16 PM	Ditto. :)
Lafarallin 08-03-06, 12:18 PM	Could someone point me in the right direction to find where you are getting this information. I have a similar question regarding touch attacks, natural attacks, and shield bash (improved shield bash). Kind of confused on how it all works with full round attack. Fighter is level 18 with natural claws, touch attack ability, and improved shield bash with shield. Now I realize I can shield bash and use a natural attack/touch attack at in the same round.
tarkin 08-03-06, 12:38 PM	If the touch attack is a seperate natural weapon, it must be done seperately. Similarly if it takes a standard/move action to activate, it might prevent you from making multiple attacks. But usually it is a power useable as a touch attack or a regular attack. Strict/Loose Game: Lets say you have special ability then when you touch someone they are affected by Golden Ice. OK, so I attack with my claw. I have to roll a single attack roll with my claw. If hit the full AC (not the touch AC), then I get the claw damage and also the touch attack is activated. If I do not hit the full AC, then I get no touch attack, even if I would have hit with the touch attack. Some Power Gamers ignore this rule and House Rule that if you hit the touch attack AC, you get the touch attack, even though you tried for the claw attack. ------ Now for the shield bash. Strict/Loose: A limb used to make an attack is in use that round and may not be used for another attack (unless you have iterative attacks. As such, any arm that was involved in making a claw attack may not be used to make a shield bash attack. (similarly, if you use that arm to wield a shield to get AC, you can not make a claw attack unless you have a feat such as Improved Buckler Defense). Most Loose players will let you use your shield in your good hand (ignoring the 'off hand' wording under sheild bashing). Using those rules you can: 1) Make a shield bash with your good hand, gettingyour AC only if you have the Improved Shield Bash feat. You don't get your good hand claw attack. 2) take a Single claw attack with your off hand, at -5 for being a secondary attack, but if it hits the full AC you get calw damage plus the touch attack. Power/Anything Goes Gamer: They might rule that you can still get a claw attack even though your limb was used already for that round. In which case you could get the shield bash and two claws, either of which might activate the touch attack.
Lafarallin 08-03-06, 01:05 PM	If the touch attack is a seperate natural weapon, it must be done seperately. Similarly if it takes a standard/move action to activate, it might prevent you from making multiple attacks. But usually it is a power useable as a touch attack or a regular attack. Strict/Loose Game: Lets say you have special ability then when you touch someone they are affected by Golden Ice. OK, so I attack with my claw. I have to roll a single attack roll with my claw. If hit the full AC (not the touch AC), then I get the claw damage and also the touch attack is activated. If I do not hit the full AC, then I get no touch attack, even if I would have hit with the touch attack. Some Power Gamers ignore this rule and House Rule that if you hit the touch attack AC, you get the touch attack, even though you tried for the claw attack. ------ Now for the shield bash. Strict/Loose: A limb used to make an attack is in use that round and may not be used for another attack (unless you have iterative attacks. As such, any arm that was involved in making a claw attack may not be used to make a shield bash attack. (similarly, if you use that arm to wield a shield to get AC, you can not make a claw attack unless you have a feat such as Improved Buckler Defense). Most Loose players will let you use your shield in your good hand (ignoring the 'off hand' wording under sheild bashing). Using those rules you can: 1) Make a shield bash with your good hand, gettingyour AC only if you have the Improved Shield Bash feat. You don't get your good hand claw attack. 2) take a Single claw attack with your off hand, at -5 for being a secondary attack, but if it hits the full AC you get calw damage plus the touch attack. Power/Anything Goes Gamer: They might rule that you can still get a claw attack even though your limb was used already for that round. In which case you could get the shield bash and two claws, either of which might activate the touch attack. Okay this is starting to make more sense to me. The only question I have is if you're an 18th level fighter with four attacks. Can I do a full attack round where I get four swings with a sword......then either shield bash, touch attack, or natural attack with my off (secondary) hand? So basically I could get four sword swings + one of the aforementioned? What order do attacks go in? Could I do a touch attack first with off (secondary) hand...then swing four times with my sword Full Attack Round?