Critical Attack question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical Attack question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Francius
06-25-06, 01:28 PM Hey everyone.

If I have the improved critical feat for a longsword (threat on a roll of 17-20) and I roll a 17 on a d20,which alone isn't enough to score a hit against an opponent but with my BAB of +6 it suffices for a hit,did I score a threat?

Or is it that only the natural result of a d20 roll(without the BAB) counts for determining a threat?
Karak_Nechot
06-25-06, 01:34 PM Only the natural roll on the d20 counts for critical hit threat range. Unless is is a 17-20 on the d20 itself, it is not a threat.

You have to roll a 17-20 on the d20, and then your actually modified attack roll must be high enough to actually hit (or you roll a 20, which is an automatic hit) for it to be a critical threat. On the threat roll, you just have to roll high enough to hit.
ksbsnowowl
06-25-06, 01:40 PM You must meet two condtions to threaten a critical.

Did you hit the opponent?

Did the natural die roll fall in the threat range?

If both are a yes, then you threaten a critical hit.
Francius
06-25-06, 02:03 PM You still didn't clarify what I asked:

Ok,I 've rolled a 17(Critical range).

To determine whether I 've scored a threat,does it have to be taken into account only the natural die roll(aka the 17 in itself, alone) or do I have to add my BAB to it to determine if I hit the opponent to score a threat?
Radijs
06-25-06, 02:07 PM Confirming a critical hit is simple.
You just make an attack roll against the opponents AC. Add all normal modifiers (BAB+STR/DEX+other bonuses) If you hit the opponents AC then you've scored a critical hit.
ShinAkuma2
06-25-06, 02:15 PM To determine whether I 've scored a threat,does it have to be taken into account only the natural die roll(aka the 17 in itself, alone) or do I have to add my BAB to it to determine if I hit the opponent to score a threat?

To score a threat, you have to a) hit, as normal, and b) score within your threat range ON THE NATURAL ROLL.

If you simply had to have a 17 total, it'd be impossible to NOT score a threat once you got to a certain level of play.
Splitter
06-25-06, 02:22 PM Okay Francius - YES, you add your BAB when determining if it is a critical threat. The die roll has to be in the threat range and the die roll plus all bonuses must hit the target. (except for a natural 20, which is an automatic hit)

Splitter
Francius
06-25-06, 02:39 PM To score a threat, you have to a) hit, as normal, and b) score within your threat range ON THE NATURAL ROLL.

If you simply had to have a 17 total, it'd be impossible to NOT score a threat once you got to a certain level of play.

Your first phrase is clear,however the second would fall out of logic boundaries if someone interpreted it in one of those ways(so you may want to be more speficic):

If I simply had to have a 17 total(die roll and BAB added),then it would be not only impossible to score a threat against anybody on higher levels but you also wouldn't be capable in even hitting them normally, since most creatures by that time would have ACs far beyond 17(AC closer to 20-25 actually).

Or, if you meant by saying 17 total only the natural die roll (BABs apart) then it wouldn't be so "simple" to score a threat since you have a 20% chance only to roll a 17-20 on a d20 roll and THEN add your BAB bonus to it to score the threat.
Sharax
06-25-06, 02:59 PM Roll 17-20 on your d20 and have a high enough total roll (d20+modiviers) to hit the target, and you have a critical threat.
ShinAkuma2
06-25-06, 05:45 PM Critical hits are supposed to be rarer than regular hits. Your second paragraph is correct.

On a threat range of 17-20, you must have a die roll of 17, 18, 19, or 20.

Then, you must hit the target, adding BAB and Str/Dex as normal (except in the case of a 20, which hits any AC). If this hit is successful, you have scored a threat, and confirm the threat with another attack roll to hit the AC as normal.
Nom
06-25-06, 10:01 PM You're over-thinking. Shin's answer is completely correct.

The two conditions for a critical threat are (rules wise) completely independent:
(1) You must hit the target (use normal rules for determining a hit, including 20 = auto-hit)
(2) The d20 roll must lie within your threat range

Yes, both these effects are based off the same d20 roll, but you evaluate them independently of each other.

To consider your example, you have (say) BAB +8, Str +4, weapon focus, and a +2 longsword, for a total attack bonus of +15. You can't legally have IC with a BAB of only +6; pre-reqs are WF and BAB +8.

Your foe has AC 28. You roll a 17.

(1) Does it hit the foe? 17 + 15 = 32 which >= 28, so you hit.
(2) Is it in the threat range? Threat range is 17-20, and 17 is within that range, so yes.
Both conditions are satisfied, so you threaten. Roll again, and if you roll 13 or greater (13 + 15 = 28) then you crit. Otherwise you merely hit.
William1976
06-25-06, 11:27 PM Hey everyone.

If I have the improved critical feat for a longsword (threat on a roll of 17-20) and I roll a 17 on a d20,which alone isn't enough to score a hit against an opponent but with my BAB of +6 it suffices for a hit,did I score a threat?

Or is it that only the natural result of a d20 roll(without the BAB) counts for determining a threat?

Level 8 warrior, BAB is +8, has only one feat improved critical, Str is 10.
standard Lonsword with improved critcal feat (17-20 crit range/x2 damage)
Enemy AC is 15.
1st example
If you roll on the d20 a number that is 17, 18, 19, or 20 and you hit the enemy means possible critical (for this situation the total attack roll is 25, 26, 27, and 28).

To confirm critical: Roll d20 again, Any number you roll as long as you hit the enemys AC will result in a critical, for this situation a roll of 7 or more on the d20 will be a critical.

2nd example.
Same as above but enemy has a 27 AC.
if you roll a 17, 18, 19 or 20 (which is for this situation 25, 26, 27, and 28), you would not get a possible critical on the 17 or 18 because you did not hit, but the 19 and 20 causes a possible critical.

Confirm critical: the second roll needs to be a 19 or higher or no critical will happen.

William
Bulletproof_Condom
06-26-06, 05:28 AM Let's try making it even simpler. When you make an attack roll, ask the following two questions. Does the total attack roll meet or exceed the target's AC? Is the number on the die within your threat range?

If 1 is not true, then you miss.
If 1 is true, but 2 is not true, then it's a regular hit.
If 1 and 2 are both true, then it's a threat.

If it is a threat, you roll again with the same attack bonus.
If the confirmation roll meets or exceeds the target's AC again, it's a critical hit.
If not, it's a regular hit.

Note that if you rolled a 20, 1 and 2 are both correct; all weapons threaten on a 20 and a 20 automatically hits.

So if you rolled a 17, and 17 plus your modifiers does not hit the target's AC, then it's a miss.

Clear?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Francius 06-25-06, 01:28 PM	Hey everyone. If I have the improved critical feat for a longsword (threat on a roll of 17-20) and I roll a 17 on a d20,which alone isn't enough to score a hit against an opponent but with my BAB of +6 it suffices for a hit,did I score a threat? Or is it that only the natural result of a d20 roll(without the BAB) counts for determining a threat?
Karak_Nechot 06-25-06, 01:34 PM	Only the natural roll on the d20 counts for critical hit threat range. Unless is is a 17-20 on the d20 itself, it is not a threat. You have to roll a 17-20 on the d20, and then your actually modified attack roll must be high enough to actually hit (or you roll a 20, which is an automatic hit) for it to be a critical threat. On the threat roll, you just have to roll high enough to hit.
ksbsnowowl 06-25-06, 01:40 PM	You must meet two condtions to threaten a critical. Did you hit the opponent? Did the natural die roll fall in the threat range? If both are a yes, then you threaten a critical hit.
Francius 06-25-06, 02:03 PM	You still didn't clarify what I asked: Ok,I 've rolled a 17(Critical range). To determine whether I 've scored a threat,does it have to be taken into account only the natural die roll(aka the 17 in itself, alone) or do I have to add my BAB to it to determine if I hit the opponent to score a threat?
Radijs 06-25-06, 02:07 PM	Confirming a critical hit is simple. You just make an attack roll against the opponents AC. Add all normal modifiers (BAB+STR/DEX+other bonuses) If you hit the opponents AC then you've scored a critical hit.
ShinAkuma2 06-25-06, 02:15 PM	To determine whether I 've scored a threat,does it have to be taken into account only the natural die roll(aka the 17 in itself, alone) or do I have to add my BAB to it to determine if I hit the opponent to score a threat? To score a threat, you have to a) hit, as normal, and b) score within your threat range ON THE NATURAL ROLL. If you simply had to have a 17 total, it'd be impossible to NOT score a threat once you got to a certain level of play.
Splitter 06-25-06, 02:22 PM	Okay Francius - YES, you add your BAB when determining if it is a critical threat. The die roll has to be in the threat range and the die roll plus all bonuses must hit the target. (except for a natural 20, which is an automatic hit) Splitter
Francius 06-25-06, 02:39 PM	To score a threat, you have to a) hit, as normal, and b) score within your threat range ON THE NATURAL ROLL. If you simply had to have a 17 total, it'd be impossible to NOT score a threat once you got to a certain level of play. Your first phrase is clear,however the second would fall out of logic boundaries if someone interpreted it in one of those ways(so you may want to be more speficic): If I simply had to have a 17 total(die roll and BAB added),then it would be not only impossible to score a threat against anybody on higher levels but you also wouldn't be capable in even hitting them normally, since most creatures by that time would have ACs far beyond 17(AC closer to 20-25 actually). Or, if you meant by saying 17 total only the natural die roll (BABs apart) then it wouldn't be so "simple" to score a threat since you have a 20% chance only to roll a 17-20 on a d20 roll and THEN add your BAB bonus to it to score the threat.
Sharax 06-25-06, 02:59 PM	Roll 17-20 on your d20 and have a high enough total roll (d20+modiviers) to hit the target, and you have a critical threat.
ShinAkuma2 06-25-06, 05:45 PM	Critical hits are supposed to be rarer than regular hits. Your second paragraph is correct. On a threat range of 17-20, you must have a die roll of 17, 18, 19, or 20. Then, you must hit the target, adding BAB and Str/Dex as normal (except in the case of a 20, which hits any AC). If this hit is successful, you have scored a threat, and confirm the threat with another attack roll to hit the AC as normal.
Nom 06-25-06, 10:01 PM	You're over-thinking. Shin's answer is completely correct. The two conditions for a critical threat are (rules wise) completely independent: (1) You must hit the target (use normal rules for determining a hit, including 20 = auto-hit) (2) The d20 roll must lie within your threat range Yes, both these effects are based off the same d20 roll, but you evaluate them independently of each other. To consider your example, you have (say) BAB +8, Str +4, weapon focus, and a +2 longsword, for a total attack bonus of +15. You can't legally have IC with a BAB of only +6; pre-reqs are WF and BAB +8. Your foe has AC 28. You roll a 17. (1) Does it hit the foe? 17 + 15 = 32 which >= 28, so you hit. (2) Is it in the threat range? Threat range is 17-20, and 17 is within that range, so yes. Both conditions are satisfied, so you threaten. Roll again, and if you roll 13 or greater (13 + 15 = 28) then you crit. Otherwise you merely hit.
William1976 06-25-06, 11:27 PM	Hey everyone. If I have the improved critical feat for a longsword (threat on a roll of 17-20) and I roll a 17 on a d20,which alone isn't enough to score a hit against an opponent but with my BAB of +6 it suffices for a hit,did I score a threat? Or is it that only the natural result of a d20 roll(without the BAB) counts for determining a threat? Level 8 warrior, BAB is +8, has only one feat improved critical, Str is 10. standard Lonsword with improved critcal feat (17-20 crit range/x2 damage) Enemy AC is 15. 1st example If you roll on the d20 a number that is 17, 18, 19, or 20 and you hit the enemy means possible critical (for this situation the total attack roll is 25, 26, 27, and 28). To confirm critical: Roll d20 again, Any number you roll as long as you hit the enemys AC will result in a critical, for this situation a roll of 7 or more on the d20 will be a critical. 2nd example. Same as above but enemy has a 27 AC. if you roll a 17, 18, 19 or 20 (which is for this situation 25, 26, 27, and 28), you would not get a possible critical on the 17 or 18 because you did not hit, but the 19 and 20 causes a possible critical. Confirm critical: the second roll needs to be a 19 or higher or no critical will happen. William
Bulletproof_Condom 06-26-06, 05:28 AM	Let's try making it even simpler. When you make an attack roll, ask the following two questions. Does the total attack roll meet or exceed the target's AC? Is the number on the die within your threat range? If 1 is not true, then you miss. If 1 is true, but 2 is not true, then it's a regular hit. If 1 and 2 are both true, then it's a threat. If it is a threat, you roll again with the same attack bonus. If the confirmation roll meets or exceeds the target's AC again, it's a critical hit. If not, it's a regular hit. Note that if you rolled a 20, 1 and 2 are both correct; all weapons threaten on a 20 and a 20 automatically hits. So if you rolled a 17, and 17 plus your modifiers does not hit the target's AC, then it's a miss. Clear?