[critical]by now I should know how to run them [Archive] - Wizards Community

[critical]by now I should know how to run them [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
damienroy77
05-21-07, 11:34 AM I looked everywhere in the books and on the net this last week and can't come with a definitive answer. I've been using critical for years but I can't find out exactly if I'm doing it right so I'll ask here.

My 8th level fighter has a +1 falchion (I told you I was talking about critical) and the following feats:
- Power attack
- Weapon specialization

With a STR 16 I normally deal
2d4 +1(Magical) +3(strength) +1(two-handed) +2(weapon spe)
2d4 +7
If I deal a critical do I simply:
Critical hit damage is usually double damage, which means rolling damage twice, just as if the attacker had actually hit the defender two times.
dealing 4d4 +2 +6 +2 +4 ?
4d4+14

The rule however specifies that (Any extra damage dice, such as from a rogue's sneak attack, are not rolled multiple times, but are added to the total at the end of the calculation.)
So maybe I just deal
4d4 and add the classic +1 +3 +1 +2 ?
4d4 +7

So what is it and how do you "know"? I can't find the answer in the rules?
I always thought the +3(strength) +1(two-handed) were doubled also, I'm not sure about the others.

Thanks a lot for your help.
jaelis
05-21-07, 11:54 AM One a critical, you roll your total damage twice. Thus you would do 4d4+14.

The only things not multiplied are extra damage dice. Things like sneak attack or flaming weapons. Basically, if you just add a number to your damage it gets multiplied on a crit. If you have to roll more dice and add them to your damage, it doesn't.
goawayugh
05-21-07, 01:09 PM Any fixed numbers get multiplied. (Str, Weap. Spec., favored enemy, enhancement...)

Any variable numbers just get added on after it is multiplied. (flaming, frost, holy, sneak attack, sudden strike, skirmish...)
El_Machinae
05-21-07, 02:58 PM All the hard numbers get multiplied. The only dice that get multiplied are the weapon damage dice.
damienroy77
05-22-07, 02:56 AM brilliant thanks a lot
ZiggZagg
05-22-07, 03:10 AM Make it even easier and just roll your damage diced once...and then double it LoL. That is how my group has always played. So much faster
Stardust
05-22-07, 09:34 AM I've been wondering if the +1 energy damage from the least weapon augment crystals is simply doubled?

After all, the damage from the lesser crystals (+1d6) wouldn't be...

Anybody got any thoughts on this? I've currently told the party fighter that his energy damage isn't doubled on a crit, is this right?
Jarii246
05-22-07, 09:59 AM You should also get Savage Critical from the Netbook of Feats, Take a look at my Sig.
goawayugh
05-22-07, 10:01 AM critical hit

A hit that strikes a vital area and therefore deals double damage or more. To score a critical hit (crit), an attacker must first score a threat (usually a natural 20 on an attack roll) and then succeed on a critical roll (just like another attack roll). Critical hit damage is usually double damage, which means rolling damage twice, just as if the attacker had actually hit the defender two times. (Any extra damage dice, such as from a rogue's sneak attack, are not rolled multiple times, but are added to the total at the end of the calculation.)
Source: PHB

The +1 energy damage is not extra dice, so it should get multiplied too.
starfire311
05-22-07, 02:32 PM I've been wondering if the +1 energy damage from the least weapon augment crystals is simply doubled?

After all, the damage from the lesser crystals (+1d6) wouldn't be...

Anybody got any thoughts on this? I've currently told the party fighter that his energy damage isn't doubled on a crit, is this right?

I think that it was a mistake printing it like that, what they really should have done is say it deals +1d1 energy damage, yeah it would look stupid, but then they could have been clear, especially since I dont think it should be multiplied and I dont think they intended for it to be multiplied, although RAW it is.
Stardust
05-22-07, 02:44 PM I think that it was a mistake printing it like that, what they really should have done is say it deals +1d1 energy damage, yeah it would look stupid, but then they could have been clear, especially since I dont think it should be multiplied and I dont think they intended for it to be multiplied, although RAW it is.

Or just added to the description that the damage isn't multiplied on a critical.

But yeah, it seems that no other energy or precision damage is multiplied and although the RAW might suggest otherwise, I'll probably stick to my houserule that it doesn't multiply, based on consistency with all other energy enhancements.

I'd say it really doesn't matter *that* much, but...

...right after getting a couple of the least crystals and figuring out what they do, the party fought a pair of earth elementals. A couple rounds in and the cleric swings at an injured one, dropping it to all but 1 hp, then remembers his new +1 fire damage. Elemental goes down, we all laugh that the extra 1hp did the trick. Then the fighter full attacks the second one leaving it with 2 hp.
Him: 'Oh and I get +1 electricity damage for each attack right?'
Me: Yes, yes you do. As you complete your second swing, you leave the elemental with only the smallest sliver of rock holding its torso together. Then a spark of lightning shoots from your sword and destroys the remainder, sending earth and stone crashing to the floor.

It can make the difference sometimes... I like to give my players a challenge pretty regularly (Never been a fan of breezing through encounters), so if it's the difference between the monster going down and getting in one more round...
mvincent
05-22-07, 03:01 PM it seems that no other energy or precision damage is multiplied Hm. I believe dragon-crafted weapons do the same thing (add flat energy damage rather than extra dice).

Also, the Ranger's favored enemy bonus is doubled on a crit, and seems to be considered precision damage based on the below rules quotes:
The core rules (DMG pg 302) and the Glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_darkness&alpha=) say:
"Creatures blinded by darkness lose the ability to deal extra damage due to precision (for example, a ranger's favored enemy or a sneak attack)."

And the 3.5 Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a) says:
"Any attack that depends on hitting a foe in a particular place or in a particular way doesn't work against an unseen foe. Sneak attacks and bonus damage from the favored enemy class feature falls into this category. The DM might decide to include others as well."
Stardust
05-22-07, 03:07 PM Hm. I believe dragon-crafted weapons do the same thing (add flat energy damage rather than extra dice).

I have no idea what dragon-crafted weapons are. I'm guessing they're from one of Draconomicon/RoD/Dragon Magic?

Also, the Ranger's favored enemy bonus is doubled on a crit, and seems to be considered precision damage

Ah, well in that case I may well be mistaken. If there's additional evidence and RAW support, I might have to change my mind. Thanks for that.

Anybody else got a rule-supported argument either way?

(Also, sorry for partly derailing the thread, but it seems like the OP got the answer they wanted already...)
Terronus
05-22-07, 06:34 PM Many special materials from Magic of Faerun give a flat +1 energy damage to weapons, which are multiplied on a critical hit, if I recall correctly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
damienroy77 05-21-07, 11:34 AM	I looked everywhere in the books and on the net this last week and can't come with a definitive answer. I've been using critical for years but I can't find out exactly if I'm doing it right so I'll ask here. My 8th level fighter has a +1 falchion (I told you I was talking about critical) and the following feats: - Power attack - Weapon specialization With a STR 16 I normally deal 2d4 +1(Magical) +3(strength) +1(two-handed) +2(weapon spe) 2d4 +7 If I deal a critical do I simply: Critical hit damage is usually double damage, which means rolling damage twice, just as if the attacker had actually hit the defender two times. dealing 4d4 +2 +6 +2 +4 ? 4d4+14 The rule however specifies that (Any extra damage dice, such as from a rogue's sneak attack, are not rolled multiple times, but are added to the total at the end of the calculation.) So maybe I just deal 4d4 and add the classic +1 +3 +1 +2 ? 4d4 +7 So what is it and how do you "know"? I can't find the answer in the rules? I always thought the +3(strength) +1(two-handed) were doubled also, I'm not sure about the others. Thanks a lot for your help.
jaelis 05-21-07, 11:54 AM	One a critical, you roll your total damage twice. Thus you would do 4d4+14. The only things not multiplied are extra damage dice. Things like sneak attack or flaming weapons. Basically, if you just add a number to your damage it gets multiplied on a crit. If you have to roll more dice and add them to your damage, it doesn't.
goawayugh 05-21-07, 01:09 PM	Any fixed numbers get multiplied. (Str, Weap. Spec., favored enemy, enhancement...) Any variable numbers just get added on after it is multiplied. (flaming, frost, holy, sneak attack, sudden strike, skirmish...)
El_Machinae 05-21-07, 02:58 PM	All the hard numbers get multiplied. The only dice that get multiplied are the weapon damage dice.
damienroy77 05-22-07, 02:56 AM	brilliant thanks a lot
ZiggZagg 05-22-07, 03:10 AM	Make it even easier and just roll your damage diced once...and then double it LoL. That is how my group has always played. So much faster
Stardust 05-22-07, 09:34 AM	I've been wondering if the +1 energy damage from the least weapon augment crystals is simply doubled? After all, the damage from the lesser crystals (+1d6) wouldn't be... Anybody got any thoughts on this? I've currently told the party fighter that his energy damage isn't doubled on a crit, is this right?
Jarii246 05-22-07, 09:59 AM	You should also get Savage Critical from the Netbook of Feats, Take a look at my Sig.
goawayugh 05-22-07, 10:01 AM	critical hit A hit that strikes a vital area and therefore deals double damage or more. To score a critical hit (crit), an attacker must first score a threat (usually a natural 20 on an attack roll) and then succeed on a critical roll (just like another attack roll). Critical hit damage is usually double damage, which means rolling damage twice, just as if the attacker had actually hit the defender two times. (Any extra damage dice, such as from a rogue's sneak attack, are not rolled multiple times, but are added to the total at the end of the calculation.) Source: PHB The +1 energy damage is not extra dice, so it should get multiplied too.
starfire311 05-22-07, 02:32 PM	I've been wondering if the +1 energy damage from the least weapon augment crystals is simply doubled? After all, the damage from the lesser crystals (+1d6) wouldn't be... Anybody got any thoughts on this? I've currently told the party fighter that his energy damage isn't doubled on a crit, is this right? I think that it was a mistake printing it like that, what they really should have done is say it deals +1d1 energy damage, yeah it would look stupid, but then they could have been clear, especially since I dont think it should be multiplied and I dont think they intended for it to be multiplied, although RAW it is.
Stardust 05-22-07, 02:44 PM	I think that it was a mistake printing it like that, what they really should have done is say it deals +1d1 energy damage, yeah it would look stupid, but then they could have been clear, especially since I dont think it should be multiplied and I dont think they intended for it to be multiplied, although RAW it is. Or just added to the description that the damage isn't multiplied on a critical. But yeah, it seems that no other energy or precision damage is multiplied and although the RAW might suggest otherwise, I'll probably stick to my houserule that it doesn't multiply, based on consistency with all other energy enhancements. I'd say it really doesn't matter that much, but... ...right after getting a couple of the least crystals and figuring out what they do, the party fought a pair of earth elementals. A couple rounds in and the cleric swings at an injured one, dropping it to all but 1 hp, then remembers his new +1 fire damage. Elemental goes down, we all laugh that the extra 1hp did the trick. Then the fighter full attacks the second one leaving it with 2 hp. Him: 'Oh and I get +1 electricity damage for each attack right?' Me: Yes, yes you do. As you complete your second swing, you leave the elemental with only the smallest sliver of rock holding its torso together. Then a spark of lightning shoots from your sword and destroys the remainder, sending earth and stone crashing to the floor. It can make the difference sometimes... I like to give my players a challenge pretty regularly (Never been a fan of breezing through encounters), so if it's the difference between the monster going down and getting in one more round...
mvincent 05-22-07, 03:01 PM	it seems that no other energy or precision damage is multiplied Hm. I believe dragon-crafted weapons do the same thing (add flat energy damage rather than extra dice). Also, the Ranger's favored enemy bonus is doubled on a crit, and seems to be considered precision damage based on the below rules quotes: The core rules (DMG pg 302) and the Glossary (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_darkness&alpha=) say: "Creatures blinded by darkness lose the ability to deal extra damage due to precision (for example, a ranger's favored enemy or a sneak attack)." And the 3.5 Rules of the Game (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040921a) says: "Any attack that depends on hitting a foe in a particular place or in a particular way doesn't work against an unseen foe. Sneak attacks and bonus damage from the favored enemy class feature falls into this category. The DM might decide to include others as well."
Stardust 05-22-07, 03:07 PM	Hm. I believe dragon-crafted weapons do the same thing (add flat energy damage rather than extra dice). I have no idea what dragon-crafted weapons are. I'm guessing they're from one of Draconomicon/RoD/Dragon Magic? Also, the Ranger's favored enemy bonus is doubled on a crit, and seems to be considered precision damage Ah, well in that case I may well be mistaken. If there's additional evidence and RAW support, I might have to change my mind. Thanks for that. Anybody else got a rule-supported argument either way? (Also, sorry for partly derailing the thread, but it seems like the OP got the answer they wanted already...)
Terronus 05-22-07, 06:34 PM	Many special materials from Magic of Faerun give a flat +1 energy damage to weapons, which are multiplied on a critical hit, if I recall correctly.