Critical help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TheDarkPrince
04-14-07, 07:38 PM This is probably a dumb :banghead: question, but when you get a critical, does it count as a critical if it is lower than the monster's AC?

For example, a keen rapier has a critical range of 13 (??)-20/x2, so if a fighter hits a bugbear (AC.....18?), is a critical hit threatened? Does the same hold true for confirming a critical?

Thanks, Cheers.
Josephvaile
04-14-07, 07:54 PM He he, it's okay, this is how a critical hit works.

Fighter A, wants to strike Bugbear B (AC 18ish)
Fighter A has a weapon that has a critical threat range of say, 18-20, and miraculously makes the roll of 19, that means that there is a critical chance, then he rolls again to back up that roll (confirming the Crit.) if that roll + his BAB + Str mod (because he's not using weapon finesse) and any other conditonal modifiers equals 18 or higher, he has critically struck the creature. If he does not make the confirmation, and the first roll beat the creature's AC + all of the modifiers hits the creature he deals normal damage instead. If Fighter A critically hits Bugbear B he rolls damage, say it's 2d4, then adds his strength mod and any other conditional modifiers. Taking that number he multiplies it by the multiplier after the range ie. 18-20/x2. In this case it's the x2. Yes it's complicated, but I know you'll get it down, it just takes getting used to. Hope that helps :)
TheDarkPrince
04-14-07, 08:01 PM No, I get criticals in general, I just was wondering if you threaten a critical when the threat range is below the monster's AC. Like getting a 15 (assuming the rapier has Keen) on an attack roll. This threatens a critical, but is lower than the monster's AC.

(It kind of depends on how you think about it, the critical hit either: Does so much damage because the attack was so strong, or does so much damage because of where you hit.)
RavenDrake
04-14-07, 08:36 PM An attack roll is only a critical threat if it beats the target's armour class, otherwise it misses as normal regardless of the threat range.

For example, in the above illustration, a bugbear with 18 AC is attacked by a character with a Keen Rapier. The attack roll is a 16, within the attack's critical threat range, but it does not beat the target's AC, so it misses instead.

Consider it being "Wow, that lunge could have punched right through the guys lung... if, y'know, he'd been standing about 2ft to the left.".
TheDarkPrince
04-14-07, 08:56 PM Ok, that's all I was wondering. I was just overanalyzing it.

Thanks.
divide_by_zero
04-15-07, 02:49 AM If you had a threat range of 15-20, the bugbear has an AC of 18, and you roll a 16, but then you have a 14 strength (+2), then you have hit the bugbear's AC and your die roll was sufficient to threaten a critical.
_SIN_
04-15-07, 08:03 AM Ok, that's all I was wondering. I was just overanalyzing it.

Thanks.

Yup, you over****yzed it... lol :D
nytemare3701
04-18-07, 12:09 PM wait a sec, wouldn't that mean a crit range over of anything other than 20 is useless against dragons and other REALLY high ac folk?

I may have read this wrong but...

dragon=ac 40
Me: rolls 19 with a longsword, threatens crit, REGARDLESS of atk bonuses.
ME: needs to HIT the 40 on the CONFIRMATION roll to actually do crit dmg.
ME: fails confirmation, doing damage as a normal attack.
draconic_swine
04-18-07, 12:17 PM Yes, a higher threat range is basically useless against foes if you can only hit them on a natural 20.

Also, I think you've got your rules mixed up. You don't threaten regardless of your attack bonus. If your attack bonus isn't 21 or higher, you won't be able to hit the dragon with a roll of 19, so you don't threaten.

Since high threat weapons become useless against high AC foes, it's usually best to either switch to a high crit weapon, and/or max out power attack/combat expertise, since if you're only going to hit on a 20 it doesn't matter if you have a -15 attack penalty, so you might as well maximize your damage/AC.
ShinAkuma2
04-18-07, 12:19 PM dragon=ac 40
Me: rolls 19 with a longsword, threatens crit, REGARDLESS of atk bonuses.
ME: needs to HIT the 40 on the CONFIRMATION roll to actually do crit dmg.
ME: fails confirmation, doing damage as a normal attack.

A threat is only a threat if it hits. If your 19 roll was not sufficient to beat the target's AC, you have no threat.

Only a natural 20 automatically hits. The fact that it is a crit threat is immaterial. Rolling within the threat range still requires a successful hit before you bother confirming anything.
nytemare3701
04-18-07, 12:24 PM wow... just looked in the PHB, and your right :weep:

I was really looking forward to having a crit range of 15/20 and auto hitting 1/4 of the time.

*runs off to rebuild character*

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheDarkPrince 04-14-07, 07:38 PM	This is probably a dumb :banghead: question, but when you get a critical, does it count as a critical if it is lower than the monster's AC? For example, a keen rapier has a critical range of 13 (??)-20/x2, so if a fighter hits a bugbear (AC.....18?), is a critical hit threatened? Does the same hold true for confirming a critical? Thanks, Cheers.
Josephvaile 04-14-07, 07:54 PM	He he, it's okay, this is how a critical hit works. Fighter A, wants to strike Bugbear B (AC 18ish) Fighter A has a weapon that has a critical threat range of say, 18-20, and miraculously makes the roll of 19, that means that there is a critical chance, then he rolls again to back up that roll (confirming the Crit.) if that roll + his BAB + Str mod (because he's not using weapon finesse) and any other conditonal modifiers equals 18 or higher, he has critically struck the creature. If he does not make the confirmation, and the first roll beat the creature's AC + all of the modifiers hits the creature he deals normal damage instead. If Fighter A critically hits Bugbear B he rolls damage, say it's 2d4, then adds his strength mod and any other conditional modifiers. Taking that number he multiplies it by the multiplier after the range ie. 18-20/x2. In this case it's the x2. Yes it's complicated, but I know you'll get it down, it just takes getting used to. Hope that helps :)
TheDarkPrince 04-14-07, 08:01 PM	No, I get criticals in general, I just was wondering if you threaten a critical when the threat range is below the monster's AC. Like getting a 15 (assuming the rapier has Keen) on an attack roll. This threatens a critical, but is lower than the monster's AC. (It kind of depends on how you think about it, the critical hit either: Does so much damage because the attack was so strong, or does so much damage because of where you hit.)
RavenDrake 04-14-07, 08:36 PM	An attack roll is only a critical threat if it beats the target's armour class, otherwise it misses as normal regardless of the threat range. For example, in the above illustration, a bugbear with 18 AC is attacked by a character with a Keen Rapier. The attack roll is a 16, within the attack's critical threat range, but it does not beat the target's AC, so it misses instead. Consider it being "Wow, that lunge could have punched right through the guys lung... if, y'know, he'd been standing about 2ft to the left.".
TheDarkPrince 04-14-07, 08:56 PM	Ok, that's all I was wondering. I was just overanalyzing it. Thanks.
divide_by_zero 04-15-07, 02:49 AM	If you had a threat range of 15-20, the bugbear has an AC of 18, and you roll a 16, but then you have a 14 strength (+2), then you have hit the bugbear's AC and your die roll was sufficient to threaten a critical.
_SIN_ 04-15-07, 08:03 AM	Ok, that's all I was wondering. I was just overanalyzing it. Thanks. Yup, you over****yzed it... lol :D
nytemare3701 04-18-07, 12:09 PM	wait a sec, wouldn't that mean a crit range over of anything other than 20 is useless against dragons and other REALLY high ac folk? I may have read this wrong but... dragon=ac 40 Me: rolls 19 with a longsword, threatens crit, REGARDLESS of atk bonuses. ME: needs to HIT the 40 on the CONFIRMATION roll to actually do crit dmg. ME: fails confirmation, doing damage as a normal attack.
draconic_swine 04-18-07, 12:17 PM	Yes, a higher threat range is basically useless against foes if you can only hit them on a natural 20. Also, I think you've got your rules mixed up. You don't threaten regardless of your attack bonus. If your attack bonus isn't 21 or higher, you won't be able to hit the dragon with a roll of 19, so you don't threaten. Since high threat weapons become useless against high AC foes, it's usually best to either switch to a high crit weapon, and/or max out power attack/combat expertise, since if you're only going to hit on a 20 it doesn't matter if you have a -15 attack penalty, so you might as well maximize your damage/AC.
ShinAkuma2 04-18-07, 12:19 PM	dragon=ac 40 Me: rolls 19 with a longsword, threatens crit, REGARDLESS of atk bonuses. ME: needs to HIT the 40 on the CONFIRMATION roll to actually do crit dmg. ME: fails confirmation, doing damage as a normal attack. A threat is only a threat if it hits. If your 19 roll was not sufficient to beat the target's AC, you have no threat. Only a natural 20 automatically hits. The fact that it is a crit threat is immaterial. Rolling within the threat range still requires a successful hit before you bother confirming anything.
nytemare3701 04-18-07, 12:24 PM	wow... just looked in the PHB, and your right :weep: I was really looking forward to having a crit range of 15/20 and auto hitting 1/4 of the time. runs off to rebuild character