Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nornagest 11-03-04, 05:31 PM	Player A has Damage Reduction 6/-. He gets hit by player B who is using a rapier (1d6, 18-20/x2). My question is this: Is damage reduction applied before the critical or after? If player A takes no damage does it negate a sneak attack bonus damage? SRD Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains.
CruelDM 11-03-04, 05:44 PM	I am pretty sure the damage is rolled for the critical hit before DR is applied. If it was a flaming rapier DR is applied before the extra damage dice from flaming, and if it reduces the damage to 0 the flaming effect is negated. Thats how I read it anyway..... Edit: sorry flaming was a bad example, i meant only extra damage effects like poison.
calypso 11-03-04, 05:44 PM	Player A has Damage Reduction 6/-. He gets hit by player B who is using a rapier (1d6, 18-20/x2). 1) My question is this: Is damage reduction applied before the critical or after? 2) If player A takes no damage does it negate a sneak attack bonus damage? 1) After 2) Yes Calypso EDIT: Sorry, it only negates nondamaging secondary effects. So, say you head a weapon that dealt a point of con damage on a successful hit. If you hit a target with DR 6/-, and dealt 5 damage, it would do no con damage. If you dealt 7 damage, it would. Calypso
Lord_Naerik 11-03-04, 05:45 PM	Add together all the actual damage the attack does, including critical hit or sneak attack, then apply damage reduction.
Bentley Mirrorshade 11-03-04, 05:52 PM	It is irrelevant whether the damage dealt comes from a critical hit or not. There is no after or before critical, there is just an amount of damage (think of critical as some kind of damage bonus) dealt at one point in combat. So substract 6 from the final number.
Nornagest 11-03-04, 06:05 PM	CruelDM: Flaming is energy damage and not reduced by DR. At least I don't think so. I personally agree with Calypso but I'm trying to help two friends. They have days off in the middle of the week (poor them) so they don't get to play in our regular weekend campaign. They simply make two characters and have at it. Sometimes, like to day, they come to a problem they can't agree on what the 'proper' solution should be. They asked me to post, as a neutral party and find out what most people think. Lord Naerik & Bentley Mirrorshade: I think that there is a before and after. If DR reduces the critical hit to zero then there is no sneak attack damage. DR comes after the hit, which includes critical hits, but before bonus damage.
primemover003 11-03-04, 06:45 PM	DR is applied AFTER everything is added up. DR 6/- right? I have a +2 longsword, I'm a rogue 1, you're flanked, I crit you, and I have Str 16... 2d8+10+1d6 sneak attack. After I roll everything (average 22) you take away 6 points for 16 points of damage. If I had Flaming on the sword you'd take ALL the fire damage because energy ignores DR.
Aracor 11-03-04, 06:48 PM	Sneak attack damage will help to penetrate damage reduction. That's explained in Rules of the Game by Skip Williams, in All About Sneak Attacks. I'll go find the link if someone else doesn't post it first. ~Aracor
Nornagest 11-03-04, 07:06 PM	2d8+10+1d6 sneak attack. After I roll everything (average 22) you take away 6 points for 16 points of damage. If I had Flaming on the sword you'd take ALL the fire damage because energy ignores DR. 2d8 for the long sword critical hit. 1d6 for the sneak attack. +10 for ??? Yes, energy attacks ignore DR. SRD Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. If 2d8 +10 +1d6 (all average damage) would be: 9 (2d8) +10 = 19 - 6 (DR 6/-) = 13. The sneak attack is allowed for 3 (1d6). 13 + 3 = 16. (Same answer) I think that if the 2d8, critical hit for the long sword, is less than 6 (DR 6/-) with no Str. mod or enhancement bonus or any other bonuses there would be no sneak attack damage. 6 (or less on 2d8) - 6 (DR 6/-) = 0 then there is no sneak attack damage. SRD Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Edit: 1) Aracor if you find it please post it. 2) On a side note does a critical hit Multiply the damage (ie long sword 1d8, 5 rolled = 10 damage) or do you get to roll x2 dice?
Aracor 11-03-04, 07:22 PM	1) Aracor if you find it please post it. Found it!! From Rules of the Game: All about Sneak Attacks (Part 3) (http://www.wizards.com./default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040302a): "A successful sneak attack increases the damage dealt. When you make a sneak attack against a foe with damage reduction, roll the sneak damage and add it to the damage from the hit before applying the effects of damage reduction." There we go. Happy? I'm sure the rogues are :) ~Aracor
cwslyclgh 11-03-04, 07:34 PM	2d8 for the long sword critical hit. 1d6 for the sneak attack. +10 for ??? the +10 is because he said he had a 16 strength and was using a +2 sword +3 strength bonus +2 enhancement bonus equals +5; doubled for the crit is +10.
Cade Hedger 11-03-04, 07:41 PM	2) On a side note does a critical hit Multiply the damage (ie long sword 1d8, 5 rolled = 10 damage) or do you get to roll x2 dice? depends on the DM, most that i have played with say x2 dice, it keeps the math to counting only but it comes out as a weaker crit overall...
cwslyclgh 11-03-04, 07:51 PM	by the rules as written on a critical hit you roll the base weapon damage twice, and add double all static modifiers (plusses that are constant such as from strength and enhancement bonuses). extra dice of damage (such as from a frost weapon, or a sneak attack) are not doubled. on weapons that deal x3 or x4 damage you roll the base weapon damage that many times and add that many times the static modifiers to it. for example if your character has a greataxe (base damage 1d12 with a x3 critical) and you have a strength of 12 (a +1 bonus to damage): if you got as normal hit you would do 1d12+1 on a critical hit you would do 3d12+3 if you had 1 level of rogue and you got a critical hit that was also a successful sneak attack you would do 3d12+3+1d6 in all of those cases you would total up the damage before applying any damage reduction.
Nom 11-03-04, 09:38 PM	Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk's stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. ...Observation: DR works on 'damage'. No mention is made of it negating critical hits or bonus damage. Rather, the total damage (including criticals and bonus damage) is reduced by the DR. Non-standard damage, such as energy damage, ability damage and energy drain, is not affected by DR. Certain special attack forms, specifically a monk's stunning fist and injury type poisons and diseases require actual injury, and thus are affected by DR. So is spell disruption.