Critical Hits Auto-Confirm on a 2nd Natural 20? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical Hits Auto-Confirm on a 2nd Natural 20? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Cryonax
03-03-08, 05:05 PM Does a natural 20 on your confirmation roll automatically confirm?

Example: A 1st level commoner takes on a pit fiend and rolls a natural 20. Wow, he hit it! He then rolls a natural 20 to confirm. Does he automatically hit the pit fiend, or do you rule that his to-hit of 20+BAB is still too low, so no confirmation.

The rules are ambiguous, and the FAQ doesn't help. The rule I've always seen played is no auto-confirm, which also has some reason to it. It's unbelievable for a commoner to hit a pit fiend, but even more unbelieveable for him to score a critical hit.

Of course, he's still dead the next round. :)

How do you interpret it?
Nephlite
03-03-08, 05:12 PM Does a natural 20 on your confirmation roll automatically confirm?

Example: A 1st level commoner takes on a pit fiend and rolls a natural 20. Wow, he hit it! He then rolls a natural 20 to confirm. Does he automatically hit the pit fiend, or do you rule that his to-hit of 20+BAB is still too low, so no confirmation.

The rules are ambiguous, and the FAQ doesn't help. The rule I've always seen played is no auto-confirm, which also has some reason to it. It's unbelievable for a commoner to hit a pit fiend, but even more unbelieveable for him to score a critical hit.

Of course, he's still dead the next round. :)

How do you interpret it?

A natural 20 is always a hit. Thus a second natural 20 is always a confirm.

There are houserules that make Natural 20 =30 (making it so commoners can't confirm on Pit fiends) and natural 1 is -10 to modifiers, but the basic rule is 20 = success for saves/attacks.
RavenDrake
03-03-08, 05:29 PM Actually, there is no concrete rule that a natural 20 on the confirmation roll automatically confirms. What is says is that, when you threaten a critical hit(as you always do with a roll of a natural 20) you make a Critical Roll. If the result of the critical roll is high enough to score a hit, then you've scored a critical. While many DM's, I'm sure, use an interpretation that a second 20 is also an automatic "hit", and thus an automatic confirmation, there's no official rule that this is the case.

Edit: Actually, going back and re-reading the whole critical hit entry again, it describes the Critical Role as an Attack Roll, which means it should follow all of the normal attack roll rules. If that's the case, then a second natural 20 on the confirmation roll would be an automatic hit, and thus automtically confirm the critical hit.
Stockvillain
03-03-08, 05:49 PM I'm not attesting to actual RAW here, but my group would count that as a critical hit no matter what you're swinging at [unless the target is immune to criticals]. I'm no good at math or statistics, but isn't the chance of rolling 2 natural 20s in a row something like .25% chance? It's not outside of the spirit of the game to allow some minuscule chance of actually hurting something that you would otherwise have no chance of touching. That's what legends are made of.
Cryonax
03-03-08, 06:45 PM That's what legends are made of.

Commoners?

:)
Commodore_Reddington
03-03-08, 07:04 PM I dont know about you guys but my house rules say a double natural 20 is an instant kill. In the long run that works against the players though, because monsters make alot more attack rolls than PCs making them more likely to hit that critical artery.

_______________________________________
Set fire to their water supply they'll never see it come'n... Yar!!!
-Commodore Reddington
StevenO
03-03-08, 07:17 PM Double 20s should be auto-hit with threat plus confirmation. The odds of that happening are 1:400 and the odds of that be neccessary (ie. you need a 20 to hit) should be even worse. It is definitely MUCH better than any "instant kill" variation that often requires two or three 20s.

With the Lv 1 Commoner vs a Pit Fiend I wouldn't worry to much about that hit. Unless that commoner is equiped FAR above normal that DR 15/Silver AND Good should prevent it from doing any lasting damage and what little does get through will probably regenerate next round anyway.
Amaril
03-03-08, 07:21 PM My house rule: If a player rolls 2 natural 20s, they roll a third time to confirm an instant kill.
Cryonax
03-04-08, 01:34 PM Sent to my inbox this morning:

Does rolling a natural 20 on the confirmation roll automatically confirm a critical hit?

Robert,

Thank you for writing. Yes it does. If you roll a natural 20 when confirming a threat, it automatically hits and deals critical damage.

Good Gaming!

Paul
Customer Service Representative
Wizards of the Coast
1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada)
425-204-8069 (From all other countries)
Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST
sblaxman
03-04-08, 02:41 PM Plus, say the commoner does crit the pit-fiend... he'll do what, 10 damage at best (using a club, flail, staff, or some other simple weapon)? Would the pit fiend even notice? Sure, the commoner can get a lucky good hit it, but the chances of it making a real difference are pretty tiny
Cryonax
03-04-08, 03:13 PM Plus, say the commoner does crit the pit-fiend... he'll do what, 10 damage at best (using a club, flail, staff, or some other simple weapon)? Would the pit fiend even notice? Sure, the commoner can get a lucky good hit it, but the chances of it making a real difference are pretty tiny

You guys are missing the broader point, but as it is a moot now, nevermind. :)
Fenrir_Greyback
03-04-08, 04:46 PM Rolling two nat 20's would be an automatic confirmation, and would be a threat for instant kill.

My question is, what happens when this is nonleathal damage? Is it still a kill?

It would seem against common sense to kill someone with nonleathal damage, but I know from experience that it is sometimes easy to overexert yourself. (Does anyone else rip random door handles off?)
Amaril
03-04-08, 04:48 PM A player can always choose to not roll for confirmation.
Nephlite
03-04-08, 05:03 PM Rolling two nat 20's would be an automatic confirmation, and would be a threat for instant kill.

My question is, what happens when this is nonleathal damage? Is it still a kill?

It would seem against common sense to kill someone with nonleathal damage, but I know from experience that it is sometimes easy to overexert yourself. (Does anyone else rip random door handles off?)

The houserule of 3 nat 20's to kill isn't supported by the WotC so I doubt they help.
I think the houserule that you can kill by rolling 20's is against commonsense personally.
Rulebook
03-04-08, 05:07 PM my group plays 3 20's auto kills, but conversely 3 1's auto kill YOU.

single ones lose the action
double ones hurt yourself for half what you'd do to them
triples kill.

its a fun rule, only happened once though.
Commodore_Reddington
03-04-08, 05:15 PM Not really if you think about it. Even the most lowly of peasants with a dull knife has a slim chance of sticking a knight in the eyeslit and killing him.

An instant kill with three nat 20s is a 1:8000 chance
Even with just two like my house rules, it's 1:400

It doesnt change game mechanics around that much, and it adds extreme excitement for the players when it does happen.

Its up to the DM to make common sense calls, such as the above mentioned Pit fiend and commoner. Maybe he needs four nat twenties.

In any case the player just rolled two or three natural twenties in a row. It shoud be a joyous occasion with lots of blood on the walls.
Cryonax
03-04-08, 05:31 PM my group plays 3 20's auto kills, but conversely 3 1's auto kill YOU.

single ones lose the action
double ones hurt yourself for half what you'd do to them
triples kill.

its a fun rule, only happened once though.

Somewhere out there is a thread showing a statistical analysis of "critical fumbles," and why they make higher level characters less competent than lower level characters. This isn't to say that critical fumbles make first level characters more powerful than 20th level characters, but rather that critical fumbles, mechanically speaking, will occur much more for a 20th level character than a 1st level character, which seems counter-intuitive.

The short answer is that iterative attacks make the chances of a critical fumble more likely, and you have more iterative attacks the higher you go in level.

Why would someone with so much more training actually stab himself in the chest more often than a 1st level commoner?
Authw8
03-04-08, 06:21 PM I love both the fumble and the instant kill rules. Under my house rules, a fumble occurs on a natural 1 and then a second roll that misses. The requirement of the confirm miss allows fighters to recover more often than anyone else, and also makes it more likely for a fighter to fumble iterative attacks. Besides, the high-level fighter fumbling more makes perfect since to me, because the fighter is trying to do a lot more than the commoner. He has far more opportunities to brainfart. Also in my campaigns, an instant kill occurs on two nat 20s and a successful hit roll. The instant kills are fun because they provide me a chance to describe some crazy thing someone just did. My players usually remember their instant kills for a long time after, relishing thier triumph for days. I make all NPC rolls in secret, so I simply don't apply the instant kill rules against the PCs. This deliberate card-stacking may violate the equality of PCs to NPCs, but to me, if it makes the game more fun, go for it.
Amaril
03-04-08, 06:36 PM The houserule of 3 nat 20's to kill isn't supported by the WotC so I doubt they help.

Really? The variant in DMG p.28 says otherwise. In fact, it only takes 2 natural 20s and a confirmation.
Cryonax
03-04-08, 06:55 PM Besides, the high-level fighter fumbling more makes perfect since to me, because the fighter is trying to do a lot more than the commoner. He has far more opportunities to brainfart.

I would say that this would justify equal odds of the high level fighter screwing up, but not greater. To make the odds even, only the last iterative attack could result in a critical fumble.

If you don't agree, I say, "Reasonable minds may disagree . . . and apparently so can ours." ;)
Kursk
03-04-08, 07:01 PM Does a natural 20 on your confirmation roll automatically confirm?

Depends on what rule your game uses. Mine uses a 1 = (-10) & a 20 = (+10) so
for my game 2 20's don't mean auto anything.
Lamorake
03-05-08, 01:56 AM My house rule: If a player rolls 2 natural 20s, they roll a third time to confirm an instant kill.
This is the exact house rule I and my friends use. 20 / 20 / confirm = death (if not immune to crits).
sblaxman
03-05-08, 03:50 PM Never did insta-kill because I just never wanted to have a goblin insta-gib a paladin on a lucky roll. I don't disagree that it can add some excitement, but it wasn't for me. However, on a crit that did massive damage to a foe, if the foe failed it's system shock roll, I would play it as an instakill, and describe it in the same way. I HR that 'massive' damage is a single hit that does ~75% of total health in a single hit. This only applied to physical attacks (not spells) to give fighters/pallies a bit more fun and effectiveness in combat. It obviously would have no effect on a dragon, but on a ogre it might come up on a good hit. Never did the math to see how it racks up to the 3x20 rule, but it happens from time to time.

I also (to save low level players) don't usually bring this in until ~level 3-4 just so everyone doesn't die right off the bad (i.e. you need to have at least 3-4 HD, if you have less, that crit would kill you anyway)

So, I guess I do have a insta-kill rule, but it's a tad different
Belfire
03-05-08, 08:47 PM Never did insta-kill because I just never wanted to have a goblin insta-gib a paladin on a lucky roll. I don't disagree that it can add some excitement, but it wasn't for me. However, on a crit that did massive damage to a foe, if the foe failed it's system shock roll, I would play it as an instakill, and describe it in the same way. I HR that 'massive' damage is a single hit that does ~75% of total health in a single hit. This only applied to physical attacks (not spells) to give fighters/pallies a bit more fun and effectiveness in combat. It obviously would have no effect on a dragon, but on a ogre it might come up on a good hit. Never did the math to see how it racks up to the 3x20 rule, but it happens from time to time.

I also (to save low level players) don't usually bring this in until ~level 3-4 just so everyone doesn't die right off the bad (i.e. you need to have at least 3-4 HD, if you have less, that crit would kill you anyway)

So, I guess I do have a insta-kill rule, but it's a tad different

Crits kill players with less then 4 HD??? Seriously? Or you mean because they only have like, 4-8 starting health?
sblaxman
03-06-08, 01:04 AM Crits kill players with less then 4 HD??? Seriously? Or you mean because they only have like, 4-8 starting health?

Meant because a crit CAN kill a guy w/ less than 4 HD (crit w/a great ax ~ 30 damage w/ lucky rolls and bonuses). Crit w/ a dagger, no, but a powerful x3 weapon could. The point was to not apply insta-kill ad-hoc rule when players can be insta killed anyway (no need to double dip)

Point was it to add flavor to battles w/o wiping out the party
fenixs11
03-06-08, 04:42 PM i've played several ways before...

my favorite so far has been worked out with increasing the critical modifiers...

as so...

every time a character rolls a 20, they roll again.

and for every 20 rolled after the first one, the critical modifier on a weapon raises by one.

using a long sword 19,20 x2, then rolling 3 20's would increase the multiplier to x4 instead.

this kinda goes along a little differently than the "instant kill thing"
but if you have a high damage output, you also have a really good chance to do a death from massive damage.

i rolled 3 20's with a long axe before, doing a HUGE critical hit with a x5 multiplier and i power attacked...
it would've been pretty cool...

except it was against strod.... :(
crwydryny
03-06-08, 06:09 PM personaly for my games the house rules state that if a player strikes a critical strike then they get to roll on a critical table (an idea borrowed from ICE's MERP) now this can have the affect of doing no extra damage, stunning and slightly wounding the target to sliceing the head in two or putting an arrow through the eye (makes the game more intresting) now rolling a twenty on the critical table gives them two rolls on the table = more hurt (basically the charicter's hit the opponent while he's reeling from the first strike)

on the same note a natural 1 = a roll on the fumble table resulting in things such as droping your weapon to putting a crossbow bolt through your own foot to digging your lance into the ground while charging your opponent and polevoting yourself into the air, resulting in a lot of hurt. I find it adds that extra bit of excitement, it's common for my players to boast about the best critical strike they've made after the game or have a laugh at the misfortune of the big bad level 10 fighter guy who tripped over his own feet while charging the enemy and twising his groin (imobilising the enemy with laughter)
and just to make things fair those players who survive critical strikes get extra XPs based on the power of the strike. I find it keeps the game moving and gives that weedy little first level wizzard a chance to best his enemy when forced into melee but it also means that not even that epic level 25 barbarian with the huge battle axe is safe even from the tiny little kobold welp with the small toothpick sized fruit knife lol
Drackthor
03-07-08, 01:13 AM I love both the fumble and the instant kill rules. Under my house rules, a fumble occurs on a natural 1 and then a second roll that misses. The requirement of the confirm miss allows fighters to recover more often than anyone else, and also makes it more likely for a fighter to fumble iterative attacks. Besides, the high-level fighter fumbling more makes perfect since to me, because the fighter is trying to do a lot more than the commoner. He has far more opportunities to brainfart.

Really? I mean, you looked at the Fighter and thought "Hm. What this class REALLY needs is a good chance of stabbing himself in the head every so often."?
kalstrand
03-08-08, 03:24 PM Really? I mean, you looked at the Fighter and thought "Hm. What this class REALLY needs is a good chance of stabbing himself in the head every so often."?

Not only does he need a chance to stab himself in the head every so often as a weapons master he needs to have a much better chance of doing it than the wizard who almost never uses a weapon.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cryonax 03-03-08, 05:05 PM	Does a natural 20 on your confirmation roll automatically confirm? Example: A 1st level commoner takes on a pit fiend and rolls a natural 20. Wow, he hit it! He then rolls a natural 20 to confirm. Does he automatically hit the pit fiend, or do you rule that his to-hit of 20+BAB is still too low, so no confirmation. The rules are ambiguous, and the FAQ doesn't help. The rule I've always seen played is no auto-confirm, which also has some reason to it. It's unbelievable for a commoner to hit a pit fiend, but even more unbelieveable for him to score a critical hit. Of course, he's still dead the next round. :) How do you interpret it?
Nephlite 03-03-08, 05:12 PM	Does a natural 20 on your confirmation roll automatically confirm? Example: A 1st level commoner takes on a pit fiend and rolls a natural 20. Wow, he hit it! He then rolls a natural 20 to confirm. Does he automatically hit the pit fiend, or do you rule that his to-hit of 20+BAB is still too low, so no confirmation. The rules are ambiguous, and the FAQ doesn't help. The rule I've always seen played is no auto-confirm, which also has some reason to it. It's unbelievable for a commoner to hit a pit fiend, but even more unbelieveable for him to score a critical hit. Of course, he's still dead the next round. :) How do you interpret it? A natural 20 is always a hit. Thus a second natural 20 is always a confirm. There are houserules that make Natural 20 =30 (making it so commoners can't confirm on Pit fiends) and natural 1 is -10 to modifiers, but the basic rule is 20 = success for saves/attacks.
RavenDrake 03-03-08, 05:29 PM	Actually, there is no concrete rule that a natural 20 on the confirmation roll automatically confirms. What is says is that, when you threaten a critical hit(as you always do with a roll of a natural 20) you make a Critical Roll. If the result of the critical roll is high enough to score a hit, then you've scored a critical. While many DM's, I'm sure, use an interpretation that a second 20 is also an automatic "hit", and thus an automatic confirmation, there's no official rule that this is the case. Edit: Actually, going back and re-reading the whole critical hit entry again, it describes the Critical Role as an Attack Roll, which means it should follow all of the normal attack roll rules. If that's the case, then a second natural 20 on the confirmation roll would be an automatic hit, and thus automtically confirm the critical hit.
Stockvillain 03-03-08, 05:49 PM	I'm not attesting to actual RAW here, but my group would count that as a critical hit no matter what you're swinging at [unless the target is immune to criticals]. I'm no good at math or statistics, but isn't the chance of rolling 2 natural 20s in a row something like .25% chance? It's not outside of the spirit of the game to allow some minuscule chance of actually hurting something that you would otherwise have no chance of touching. That's what legends are made of.
Cryonax 03-03-08, 06:45 PM	That's what legends are made of. Commoners? :)
Commodore_Reddington 03-03-08, 07:04 PM	I dont know about you guys but my house rules say a double natural 20 is an instant kill. In the long run that works against the players though, because monsters make alot more attack rolls than PCs making them more likely to hit that critical artery. _______________________________________ Set fire to their water supply they'll never see it come'n... Yar!!! -Commodore Reddington
StevenO 03-03-08, 07:17 PM	Double 20s should be auto-hit with threat plus confirmation. The odds of that happening are 1:400 and the odds of that be neccessary (ie. you need a 20 to hit) should be even worse. It is definitely MUCH better than any "instant kill" variation that often requires two or three 20s. With the Lv 1 Commoner vs a Pit Fiend I wouldn't worry to much about that hit. Unless that commoner is equiped FAR above normal that DR 15/Silver AND Good should prevent it from doing any lasting damage and what little does get through will probably regenerate next round anyway.
Amaril 03-03-08, 07:21 PM	My house rule: If a player rolls 2 natural 20s, they roll a third time to confirm an instant kill.
Cryonax 03-04-08, 01:34 PM	Sent to my inbox this morning: Does rolling a natural 20 on the confirmation roll automatically confirm a critical hit? Robert, Thank you for writing. Yes it does. If you roll a natural 20 when confirming a threat, it automatically hits and deals critical damage. Good Gaming! Paul Customer Service Representative Wizards of the Coast 1-800-324-6496 (US and Canada) 425-204-8069 (From all other countries) Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST
sblaxman 03-04-08, 02:41 PM	Plus, say the commoner does crit the pit-fiend... he'll do what, 10 damage at best (using a club, flail, staff, or some other simple weapon)? Would the pit fiend even notice? Sure, the commoner can get a lucky good hit it, but the chances of it making a real difference are pretty tiny
Cryonax 03-04-08, 03:13 PM	Plus, say the commoner does crit the pit-fiend... he'll do what, 10 damage at best (using a club, flail, staff, or some other simple weapon)? Would the pit fiend even notice? Sure, the commoner can get a lucky good hit it, but the chances of it making a real difference are pretty tiny You guys are missing the broader point, but as it is a moot now, nevermind. :)
Fenrir_Greyback 03-04-08, 04:46 PM	Rolling two nat 20's would be an automatic confirmation, and would be a threat for instant kill. My question is, what happens when this is nonleathal damage? Is it still a kill? It would seem against common sense to kill someone with nonleathal damage, but I know from experience that it is sometimes easy to overexert yourself. (Does anyone else rip random door handles off?)
Amaril 03-04-08, 04:48 PM	A player can always choose to not roll for confirmation.
Nephlite 03-04-08, 05:03 PM	Rolling two nat 20's would be an automatic confirmation, and would be a threat for instant kill. My question is, what happens when this is nonleathal damage? Is it still a kill? It would seem against common sense to kill someone with nonleathal damage, but I know from experience that it is sometimes easy to overexert yourself. (Does anyone else rip random door handles off?) The houserule of 3 nat 20's to kill isn't supported by the WotC so I doubt they help. I think the houserule that you can kill by rolling 20's is against commonsense personally.
Rulebook 03-04-08, 05:07 PM	my group plays 3 20's auto kills, but conversely 3 1's auto kill YOU. single ones lose the action double ones hurt yourself for half what you'd do to them triples kill. its a fun rule, only happened once though.
Commodore_Reddington 03-04-08, 05:15 PM	Not really if you think about it. Even the most lowly of peasants with a dull knife has a slim chance of sticking a knight in the eyeslit and killing him. An instant kill with three nat 20s is a 1:8000 chance Even with just two like my house rules, it's 1:400 It doesnt change game mechanics around that much, and it adds extreme excitement for the players when it does happen. Its up to the DM to make common sense calls, such as the above mentioned Pit fiend and commoner. Maybe he needs four nat twenties. In any case the player just rolled two or three natural twenties in a row. It shoud be a joyous occasion with lots of blood on the walls.
Cryonax 03-04-08, 05:31 PM	my group plays 3 20's auto kills, but conversely 3 1's auto kill YOU. single ones lose the action double ones hurt yourself for half what you'd do to them triples kill. its a fun rule, only happened once though. Somewhere out there is a thread showing a statistical analysis of "critical fumbles," and why they make higher level characters less competent than lower level characters. This isn't to say that critical fumbles make first level characters more powerful than 20th level characters, but rather that critical fumbles, mechanically speaking, will occur much more for a 20th level character than a 1st level character, which seems counter-intuitive. The short answer is that iterative attacks make the chances of a critical fumble more likely, and you have more iterative attacks the higher you go in level. Why would someone with so much more training actually stab himself in the chest more often than a 1st level commoner?
Authw8 03-04-08, 06:21 PM	I love both the fumble and the instant kill rules. Under my house rules, a fumble occurs on a natural 1 and then a second roll that misses. The requirement of the confirm miss allows fighters to recover more often than anyone else, and also makes it more likely for a fighter to fumble iterative attacks. Besides, the high-level fighter fumbling more makes perfect since to me, because the fighter is trying to do a lot more than the commoner. He has far more opportunities to brainfart. Also in my campaigns, an instant kill occurs on two nat 20s and a successful hit roll. The instant kills are fun because they provide me a chance to describe some crazy thing someone just did. My players usually remember their instant kills for a long time after, relishing thier triumph for days. I make all NPC rolls in secret, so I simply don't apply the instant kill rules against the PCs. This deliberate card-stacking may violate the equality of PCs to NPCs, but to me, if it makes the game more fun, go for it.
Amaril 03-04-08, 06:36 PM	The houserule of 3 nat 20's to kill isn't supported by the WotC so I doubt they help. Really? The variant in DMG p.28 says otherwise. In fact, it only takes 2 natural 20s and a confirmation.
Cryonax 03-04-08, 06:55 PM	Besides, the high-level fighter fumbling more makes perfect since to me, because the fighter is trying to do a lot more than the commoner. He has far more opportunities to brainfart. I would say that this would justify equal odds of the high level fighter screwing up, but not greater. To make the odds even, only the last iterative attack could result in a critical fumble. If you don't agree, I say, "Reasonable minds may disagree . . . and apparently so can ours." ;)
Kursk 03-04-08, 07:01 PM	Does a natural 20 on your confirmation roll automatically confirm? Depends on what rule your game uses. Mine uses a 1 = (-10) & a 20 = (+10) so for my game 2 20's don't mean auto anything.
Lamorake 03-05-08, 01:56 AM	My house rule: If a player rolls 2 natural 20s, they roll a third time to confirm an instant kill. This is the exact house rule I and my friends use. 20 / 20 / confirm = death (if not immune to crits).
sblaxman 03-05-08, 03:50 PM	Never did insta-kill because I just never wanted to have a goblin insta-gib a paladin on a lucky roll. I don't disagree that it can add some excitement, but it wasn't for me. However, on a crit that did massive damage to a foe, if the foe failed it's system shock roll, I would play it as an instakill, and describe it in the same way. I HR that 'massive' damage is a single hit that does ~75% of total health in a single hit. This only applied to physical attacks (not spells) to give fighters/pallies a bit more fun and effectiveness in combat. It obviously would have no effect on a dragon, but on a ogre it might come up on a good hit. Never did the math to see how it racks up to the 3x20 rule, but it happens from time to time. I also (to save low level players) don't usually bring this in until ~level 3-4 just so everyone doesn't die right off the bad (i.e. you need to have at least 3-4 HD, if you have less, that crit would kill you anyway) So, I guess I do have a insta-kill rule, but it's a tad different
Belfire 03-05-08, 08:47 PM	Never did insta-kill because I just never wanted to have a goblin insta-gib a paladin on a lucky roll. I don't disagree that it can add some excitement, but it wasn't for me. However, on a crit that did massive damage to a foe, if the foe failed it's system shock roll, I would play it as an instakill, and describe it in the same way. I HR that 'massive' damage is a single hit that does ~75% of total health in a single hit. This only applied to physical attacks (not spells) to give fighters/pallies a bit more fun and effectiveness in combat. It obviously would have no effect on a dragon, but on a ogre it might come up on a good hit. Never did the math to see how it racks up to the 3x20 rule, but it happens from time to time. I also (to save low level players) don't usually bring this in until ~level 3-4 just so everyone doesn't die right off the bad (i.e. you need to have at least 3-4 HD, if you have less, that crit would kill you anyway) So, I guess I do have a insta-kill rule, but it's a tad different Crits kill players with less then 4 HD??? Seriously? Or you mean because they only have like, 4-8 starting health?
sblaxman 03-06-08, 01:04 AM	Crits kill players with less then 4 HD??? Seriously? Or you mean because they only have like, 4-8 starting health? Meant because a crit CAN kill a guy w/ less than 4 HD (crit w/a great ax ~ 30 damage w/ lucky rolls and bonuses). Crit w/ a dagger, no, but a powerful x3 weapon could. The point was to not apply insta-kill ad-hoc rule when players can be insta killed anyway (no need to double dip) Point was it to add flavor to battles w/o wiping out the party
fenixs11 03-06-08, 04:42 PM	i've played several ways before... my favorite so far has been worked out with increasing the critical modifiers... as so... every time a character rolls a 20, they roll again. and for every 20 rolled after the first one, the critical modifier on a weapon raises by one. using a long sword 19,20 x2, then rolling 3 20's would increase the multiplier to x4 instead. this kinda goes along a little differently than the "instant kill thing" but if you have a high damage output, you also have a really good chance to do a death from massive damage. i rolled 3 20's with a long axe before, doing a HUGE critical hit with a x5 multiplier and i power attacked... it would've been pretty cool... except it was against strod.... :(
crwydryny 03-06-08, 06:09 PM	personaly for my games the house rules state that if a player strikes a critical strike then they get to roll on a critical table (an idea borrowed from ICE's MERP) now this can have the affect of doing no extra damage, stunning and slightly wounding the target to sliceing the head in two or putting an arrow through the eye (makes the game more intresting) now rolling a twenty on the critical table gives them two rolls on the table = more hurt (basically the charicter's hit the opponent while he's reeling from the first strike) on the same note a natural 1 = a roll on the fumble table resulting in things such as droping your weapon to putting a crossbow bolt through your own foot to digging your lance into the ground while charging your opponent and polevoting yourself into the air, resulting in a lot of hurt. I find it adds that extra bit of excitement, it's common for my players to boast about the best critical strike they've made after the game or have a laugh at the misfortune of the big bad level 10 fighter guy who tripped over his own feet while charging the enemy and twising his groin (imobilising the enemy with laughter) and just to make things fair those players who survive critical strikes get extra XPs based on the power of the strike. I find it keeps the game moving and gives that weedy little first level wizzard a chance to best his enemy when forced into melee but it also means that not even that epic level 25 barbarian with the huge battle axe is safe even from the tiny little kobold welp with the small toothpick sized fruit knife lol
Drackthor 03-07-08, 01:13 AM	I love both the fumble and the instant kill rules. Under my house rules, a fumble occurs on a natural 1 and then a second roll that misses. The requirement of the confirm miss allows fighters to recover more often than anyone else, and also makes it more likely for a fighter to fumble iterative attacks. Besides, the high-level fighter fumbling more makes perfect since to me, because the fighter is trying to do a lot more than the commoner. He has far more opportunities to brainfart. Really? I mean, you looked at the Fighter and thought "Hm. What this class REALLY needs is a good chance of stabbing himself in the head every so often."?
kalstrand 03-08-08, 03:24 PM	Really? I mean, you looked at the Fighter and thought "Hm. What this class REALLY needs is a good chance of stabbing himself in the head every so often."? Not only does he need a chance to stab himself in the head every so often as a weapons master he needs to have a much better chance of doing it than the wizard who almost never uses a weapon.