Critical multiplier enhancement??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Critical multiplier enhancement??? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Noblehawk33
12-13-07, 04:13 AM Does any one know of a source for a weapon enhancement that would increase a weapons critical damage multiplier? I do not mean keen which increases the critical range but an increase to the multiplier? If not what would an enhancement like this be worth and what would you call it.
Black Mantha
12-13-07, 06:36 AM I don't think you'll find it in any official book, because it would synergice too strongly with keen/improved critical.
However, since you asked: It would always be use with keen, I'd price it according to the benefit you get from it on a keen blade. That's about double the benefit you get on a keen blade. So I'd call it a +2 enhancement. Since keen means "sharp", so it digs in more deeply, I'd call this enhancement "breeching" or "penetrating"; it digs in further. Now, let's see what a +1 keen breeching frost burst scimitar is compared to a +5 frost scimitar. Let's work out the average damage of both: (disregarding strength, natural 1's and 20's)

damage = chance to hit * damage on hit + chance to crit * chance to hit * damage on crit = chance to hit * (damage on hit + chance to crit * extra damage on crit)
damage if AC > Att => AC - 20 + threat range (so that a threat is always a hit):
= ((BaB + Str + Enh - AC + 21)/20) * (damage on hit + (threat range / 20) * extra damage on crit)
damage if AC - 20 <= Att <= AC - 20 + threat range (so that a hit is always a threat):
= ((BaB + Str + Enh - AC + 21)/20) * (damage on hit + ((BaB + Str + Enh - AC + 21)/20) * extra damage on crit)

+5 frost, Att => AC - 18:
((Att + Str + 5 - AC + 21)/20) * (3.5+5+3.5+Str + 0.15 * (3.5+5+Str)) =
((Att - AC)/20 + Str/20 + 1.30) * (13.275 + 1.15*Str) =
(Att - AC)*0.66375 + Str^2*0.0575 + Str*2.15875 + 17.2575

+1 keen breeching frost burst, Att => AC - 15
((Att + Str + 1 - AC + 21)/20) * (3.5+1+3.5+Str + 0.30 * (3.5+2+11+Str*2)) =
((Att - AC)/20 + Str/20 + 1.10) * (12.95 + 1.6*Str) =
(Att - AC)*0.6475 + Str^2*0.08 + Str*2.4075 + 14.245

This is a bit hard to see what is better, so I made a graph of the relative difference in damage:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/BlackMantha/Forum%20Scraps/graph_breeching.png

As you can see, the optimal benefit is not too much, and it's actually usually worse. So maybe breeching being +1 isn't so unbalanced. Compared to a +5 scimitar:
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/BlackMantha/Forum%20Scraps/graph_breeching2.png
Making this a good weapon against weaker enemies, but not the really tough ones.

EDIT: There is a small error in the graphs. The long side (AC-BaB) actually goes from 5 to 25.

Well, in conclusion, I can say that although it being a +1 bonus in regular combat is balanced, when you combine it with things like smiting or divine favour is becomes much more powerful, so I'll keep it at +2.
RavenDrake
12-13-07, 07:41 AM I have an enhancement in my games that increases the critical multiplier (x2 weapons become x3, x3 weapons become x5, and x4 weapons become x7, which matches the effect of keen), however it does NOT stack with any other critical enhancing feat, spell, enchantment, or effect(of which I have several, none of which stack with each other).

While it does skew it's power to the higher strength characters, or character who add static damage, the high multiplier weapons already skew to them, and I like giving them an option that's more in keeping with thier theme of individual, strong hits.

I have it priced at a +1 bonus.
Tordak
12-13-07, 10:06 AM There are some specialised feat that accomplish what you said, but usually on specific creature; ranger's favored enemy (I think the feat is in races of the wild, or complete warrior not sure), against Dragon (Draconimicon, x2 becomes x3, x3 -> x5, x4 -> x7), and possibly other. I am not aware of such enhancement, but you could look up crystal keep (google 'D&D Crystal Keep', and hit 'I feel lucky'...).
Hsien
12-13-07, 11:47 AM Although not weapon "enhancements" there are some PrC's that do that.

Master Thrower (PrC) has a trick that provides a +1 to multiplier.
Of course it's only for thrown weapons
Saiyamantis
12-13-07, 08:33 PM Miniatures Handbook has the Maiming weapon quality that makes your critical multiplier random- depending on your weapon and luck, you might have anything from no multiplier at all to an x8(!) multiplier. On average, your multiplier is going to be x.5 higher than usual.
Bloodsoul
12-14-07, 05:14 PM I forgot what book it was, but I do recall a Rapier with a x3 crit, so perhaps it's pricing could be reversed to figure out an equivalent bonus (since that was the only effect given to it).

I think I found it in Book of Vile Darkness or Complete Scoundrel, but I lent out 90% of my material so I can't check myself.
kalstrand
12-14-07, 06:51 PM Maiming was updated and changed in the Magic Item Compendium.
RavenDrake
12-15-07, 12:25 AM Yep, Harrowheart in the the Book of Vile Darkness is a +2 Rapier that deals x3 damage on a successful critical hit against Good aligned creatures, and costs 15,320.

To my way of thinking, though, a higher multiplier (as long as you don't allow it to stack with other critical enhancements) isn't any more powerful than a higher threat range, so I'd price equivilent increases in multiplier the same as increases in threat range.
Beckettvampire
12-16-07, 02:33 AM Every single worthwhile item that reappeared in the Item compendium became extremely useless and the entire book needs to be erased from any and all player's/dm's memories like it was never published.

Maiming takes the base crit multiplier, and doubles it (sort of). Whatever that number is, is the die you roll to see what the multiplier is on each crit. So if it is normally a x3, you roll a d6 and that is the multiplier for that crit.
risner
12-17-07, 09:34 AM Maiming takes the base crit multiplier, and doubles it (sort of). Whatever that number is, is the die you roll to see what the multiplier is on each crit. So if it is normally a x3, you roll a d6 and that is the multiplier for that crit.

Well, not anymore it doesn't.

But you are free to take any other old material and play with it as well.
You are free to play with 3.0 Haste and shoot two spells a round.
In short, MIC fixed a lot of problems.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Noblehawk33 12-13-07, 04:13 AM	Does any one know of a source for a weapon enhancement that would increase a weapons critical damage multiplier? I do not mean keen which increases the critical range but an increase to the multiplier? If not what would an enhancement like this be worth and what would you call it.
Black Mantha 12-13-07, 06:36 AM	I don't think you'll find it in any official book, because it would synergice too strongly with keen/improved critical. However, since you asked: It would always be use with keen, I'd price it according to the benefit you get from it on a keen blade. That's about double the benefit you get on a keen blade. So I'd call it a +2 enhancement. Since keen means "sharp", so it digs in more deeply, I'd call this enhancement "breeching" or "penetrating"; it digs in further. Now, let's see what a +1 keen breeching frost burst scimitar is compared to a +5 frost scimitar. Let's work out the average damage of both: (disregarding strength, natural 1's and 20's) damage = chance to hit * damage on hit + chance to crit * chance to hit * damage on crit = chance to hit * (damage on hit + chance to crit * extra damage on crit) damage if AC > Att => AC - 20 + threat range (so that a threat is always a hit): = ((BaB + Str + Enh - AC + 21)/20) * (damage on hit + (threat range / 20) * extra damage on crit) damage if AC - 20 <= Att <= AC - 20 + threat range (so that a hit is always a threat): = ((BaB + Str + Enh - AC + 21)/20) * (damage on hit + ((BaB + Str + Enh - AC + 21)/20) * extra damage on crit) +5 frost, Att => AC - 18: ((Att + Str + 5 - AC + 21)/20) * (3.5+5+3.5+Str + 0.15 * (3.5+5+Str)) = ((Att - AC)/20 + Str/20 + 1.30) * (13.275 + 1.15Str) = (Att - AC)0.66375 + Str^20.0575 + Str2.15875 + 17.2575 +1 keen breeching frost burst, Att => AC - 15 ((Att + Str + 1 - AC + 21)/20) * (3.5+1+3.5+Str + 0.30 * (3.5+2+11+Str2)) = ((Att - AC)/20 + Str/20 + 1.10) (12.95 + 1.6Str) = (Att - AC)0.6475 + Str^20.08 + Str2.4075 + 14.245 This is a bit hard to see what is better, so I made a graph of the relative difference in damage: http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/BlackMantha/Forum%20Scraps/graph_breeching.png As you can see, the optimal benefit is not too much, and it's actually usually worse. So maybe breeching being +1 isn't so unbalanced. Compared to a +5 scimitar: http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t268/BlackMantha/Forum%20Scraps/graph_breeching2.png Making this a good weapon against weaker enemies, but not the really tough ones. EDIT: There is a small error in the graphs. The long side (AC-BaB) actually goes from 5 to 25. Well, in conclusion, I can say that although it being a +1 bonus in regular combat is balanced, when you combine it with things like smiting or divine favour is becomes much more powerful, so I'll keep it at +2.
RavenDrake 12-13-07, 07:41 AM	I have an enhancement in my games that increases the critical multiplier (x2 weapons become x3, x3 weapons become x5, and x4 weapons become x7, which matches the effect of keen), however it does NOT stack with any other critical enhancing feat, spell, enchantment, or effect(of which I have several, none of which stack with each other). While it does skew it's power to the higher strength characters, or character who add static damage, the high multiplier weapons already skew to them, and I like giving them an option that's more in keeping with thier theme of individual, strong hits. I have it priced at a +1 bonus.
Tordak 12-13-07, 10:06 AM	There are some specialised feat that accomplish what you said, but usually on specific creature; ranger's favored enemy (I think the feat is in races of the wild, or complete warrior not sure), against Dragon (Draconimicon, x2 becomes x3, x3 -> x5, x4 -> x7), and possibly other. I am not aware of such enhancement, but you could look up crystal keep (google 'D&D Crystal Keep', and hit 'I feel lucky'...).
Hsien 12-13-07, 11:47 AM	Although not weapon "enhancements" there are some PrC's that do that. Master Thrower (PrC) has a trick that provides a +1 to multiplier. Of course it's only for thrown weapons
Saiyamantis 12-13-07, 08:33 PM	Miniatures Handbook has the Maiming weapon quality that makes your critical multiplier random- depending on your weapon and luck, you might have anything from no multiplier at all to an x8(!) multiplier. On average, your multiplier is going to be x.5 higher than usual.
Bloodsoul 12-14-07, 05:14 PM	I forgot what book it was, but I do recall a Rapier with a x3 crit, so perhaps it's pricing could be reversed to figure out an equivalent bonus (since that was the only effect given to it). I think I found it in Book of Vile Darkness or Complete Scoundrel, but I lent out 90% of my material so I can't check myself.
kalstrand 12-14-07, 06:51 PM	Maiming was updated and changed in the Magic Item Compendium.
RavenDrake 12-15-07, 12:25 AM	Yep, Harrowheart in the the Book of Vile Darkness is a +2 Rapier that deals x3 damage on a successful critical hit against Good aligned creatures, and costs 15,320. To my way of thinking, though, a higher multiplier (as long as you don't allow it to stack with other critical enhancements) isn't any more powerful than a higher threat range, so I'd price equivilent increases in multiplier the same as increases in threat range.
Beckettvampire 12-16-07, 02:33 AM	Every single worthwhile item that reappeared in the Item compendium became extremely useless and the entire book needs to be erased from any and all player's/dm's memories like it was never published. Maiming takes the base crit multiplier, and doubles it (sort of). Whatever that number is, is the die you roll to see what the multiplier is on each crit. So if it is normally a x3, you roll a d6 and that is the multiplier for that crit.
risner 12-17-07, 09:34 AM	Maiming takes the base crit multiplier, and doubles it (sort of). Whatever that number is, is the die you roll to see what the multiplier is on each crit. So if it is normally a x3, you roll a d6 and that is the multiplier for that crit. Well, not anymore it doesn't. But you are free to take any other old material and play with it as well. You are free to play with 3.0 Haste and shoot two spells a round. In short, MIC fixed a lot of problems.