Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DauntlessDave 12-01-06, 04:37 PM	Hello community. This is my first post. It always bothered me that there was a magical way to erase every infirmaty a PC might encounter, and that this fact erased some of the drama and individuality that permanant injuries and maladies lend to a story. The usual way to solve this problem is to create a "Critical Hit Table" that might result in someone losing an arm or whatnot during a battle. I've never seen one that works. An idea my crew came up with is to instead use a "Grievous Wounds" table that only comes into play when a PC is knocked into negative hit points, incombination with a similar "Deadly wounds" table, to be consulted upon the death of a PC. Here's the eventual table and rules that resulted from this idea, let me know what you all think (ps, so far in our campaign there is a paladin who has been rendered mute by a sting from a giant soldier ant to the throat, the player has had much fun with the affliction): Grievous Wounds Table: PC hitpoints fall below 0= Grievously wounded. All rules from PHandbook pp 145-146 apply AND PC must roll on Table below: Normal Rules 1-30 Head Wound 31-40 Bleeding Wound 41-50 Body Blow 51-60 Intractable Wound 61-70 Disfigured 71-80 Permanent Injury 81-00 Killed By Wounds Table: PC hitpoints fall to -10=Dead. All normal rules regarding death apply AND PC must roll on table below. The PC must roll on the killed by wounds table even if he or she already rolled on the Grievous Wounds Table. In the event a PC goes from positive hitpoints to -10 hitpoints or below, only the killed by wounds table must be consulted. The results “Disfigured” and “Permanent Injury” on this table will apply in the event that the dead PC is raised from death. These effects will remain even after the PC is raised. However, if the PC is reincarnated or resurrected, then the PC will have a new body that is not disfigured or afflicted by a permanent injury. Normal Rules 1-30 Disfigured 31-40 Permanent Injury 41-75 Unraisable Death 75-00 Head Wound: PC remains dazed for up to one week after reaching positive hitpoints. The PC must make attempt INT WIZ CON checks each morning beginning the day after the wound occurs, and will return to normal if all three checks are passed on the same day. In the event that the PC fails each of the 7 days of checks, he will suffer a permanent loss of 1 point of intelligence. Prior to the expiration of the 7 days or an intervening successful ability check the PC is not capable of performing both a move action and a standard action in the same round. Bleeding Wound: PC is quickly bleeding to death. Rather than losing 1 hitpoint per round until stabilized or dead, the PC will lose 2 hitpoints per round and stabilizing heal DC is 20, self stabilizing is only 5% per round. Body Blow: PC’s wounds have rendered it difficult for the PC to hold ordinary posture or maintain an ordinary gait. PC’s movement is at ½ speed and attacks are at -4 until PC is fully healed. Intractable Wound: All forms of healing occur at ½ strength (rounding down) until PC is fully healed. Disfigured: PC loses 1d4 points of charisma. Being disfigured a second time will remove a further 1d3 points of charisma and 1d3 points of constitution, but after that, you’re as screwed up looking as you’ll get. Unraisable Death: PC’s wounds are so extensive that the body is no longer capable of accepting a raise dead spell. The spells resurrection and reincarnation will still function normally. Permanent Injury: 1. Lost Primary Hand. This is a great fear of nearly all PC’s regardless of class. Results are varied and extreme. WEAPONS: PC cannot use any two handed weapon, and cannot use a sling. PC cannot attack with the primary hand and therefore can only make off hand attacks. See PH page 160. However, where only the off hand is used to wield a weapon, it does so at +2. Thus, ordinary off hand attacks are at -8, off hand attacks with light weapons are at -6. Off hand attacks with the two weapon fighting feat are at -4 and offhand attacks with a light weapon and the two weapon fighting feat suffer no penalty. A specially constructed light shield or buckler can be made, at 5 times the ordinary cost, to be secured to the primary arm’s forearm, and will function normally. Specially constructed melee weapons may be made, at 10 times the ordinary cost, for permanent securing to the primary arm, but only light weapons that require no wrist movement to function may be used for this purpose. These weapons include the Punching Dagger, and the light spiked shield, and will function normally at no penalty. A PC using, say, a specially constructed punching dagger on the primary arm and an ordinary light melee weapon with the off hand will use the normal rules from PH p.160, and attack with both at -2 with the two weapon fighting feat. SPELLCASTING: All spells with a somatic component are much more difficult to cast without the primary hand making the required gesture. The caster must make a concentration check against a DC of 10+2 per spell level, or else the spell fails. SKILLS: Skill checks for the following skills are all made at -4: Balance, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Heal, Jump, Profession, Ride, Search and Swim. The following skills are made at -8: Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Forgery, Open Lock, Perform (if instrument is 2 handed), Slight of Hand and Use Rope. As second lost primary hand results in a lost primary arm. 2. Lost Secondary Hand. This is a surprisingly debilitating condition. WEAPONS: PC cannot use any two handed weapon and cannot use a sling. PC cannot attack with the off hand and therefore can only make primary hand attacks. A specially constructed light shield or buckler can be made, at 5 times the ordinary cost, to be secured to the off-hand forearm, and will function normally. Specially constructed melee weapons may be made, at 10 times the ordinary cost, for permanent securing to the off-hand arm, but only light weapons that require no wrist movement to function may be used for this purpose. These weapons include the Punching Dagger, and the light spiked shield, and will function normally at no penalty. A PC using, say, a specially constructed punching dagger on the offhand arm an ordinary melee weapon with the primary hand will use the normal rules from PH p.160, and attack with both at -2 with the two weapon fighting feat. SPELLCASTING: All spells with a somatic component are somewhat more difficult to cast without the off hand to aid in making the required gesture. If the caster’s primary hand is empty, there are no penalties, however, in the event the caster wishes to cast a spell with a somatic component while holding a weapon or other item, the caster must make a concentration check against a DC of 8+2 per spell level, or else the spell fails. SKILLS: Skill checks for the following skills are all made at -2: Balance, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Heal, Jump, Profession, Ride, Search and Swim. The following skills are made at -4: Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Open Lock, Perform (if instrument is 2 handed), Slight of Hand and Use Rope. A second lost secondary hand results in a lost secondary arm. 3. Lost Primary Arm. This is terrible. All the effects of the lost primary hand result above are present, and there is no way to produce a special weapon or shield to be used on the primary arm to offset the effects of the disability. A second lost primary arm has no effect. 4. Lost Secondary Arm. This is bad. All the effects of the lost secondary hand effect above are present, and there is no way to produce a special weapon or shield to be used on the off hand arm to offset the effects of the disability. A second lost secondary arm has no effect. 5. Lost Foot. The loss of a foot disturbs a PC’s balance and speed, especially before a club limb is made to replace the lost foot. Assuming the PC is on a makeshift artificial leg or crutch, the PC’s speed will be reduced by 50%, dexterity will be reduced by 4 and strength will be reduced by 2. The PC cannot run, double move, or charge. SKILLS: In addition to the dexterity penalty, the following skills suffer a -4 penalty: Balance, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal and Ride. And these skills suffer a -6 penalty: Jump, Move Silently, Swim and Tumble. After spending 200 GP procuring a custom artificial foot from a craftsman in a City, the PC will suffer the following lesser effects. The PC’s speed will be reduced by 5, dexterity will be reduced by 2 and strength will be reduced by 1. The PC cannot run, but may double move or charge. In addition to the dexterity penalty, the following skills suffer a -2 penalty: Balance, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal and Ride. And these skills suffer a -4 penalty: Jump, Move Silently, Swim and Tumble. A second lost foot will cause all of the effects of a lost leg. 6. Lost Leg. The loss of a leg greatly disturbs a PC’s balance, speed and posture, especially before a club limb is made to replace the lost leg. Assuming the PC is on a makeshift artificial leg or crutch, the PC’s speed will be reduced by 50% or 15, whichever is greater, dexterity will be reduced by 4 and strength will be reduced by 4. The PC cannot run, double move, or charge. SKILLS: In addition to the dexterity penalty, the following skills suffer a -6 penalty: Balance, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal and Ride. And these skills suffer a -8 penalty: Jump, Move Silently, Swim and Tumble. After spending 300 GP procuring a custom artificial leg from a craftsman in a City, the PC will suffer the following lesser effects. The PC’s speed will be reduced by 10, dexterity will be reduced by 3 and strength will be reduced by 2. The PC cannot run, double move or charge. In addition to the dexterity penalty, the following skills suffer a -4 penalty: Balance, Climb, Disguise, Escape Artist, Handle Animal and Ride. And these skills suffer a -6 penalty: Jump, Move Silently, Swim and Tumble. Loss of an opposite foot in addition to the leg will result in the “crutch” missing leg scores, even after the foot and the leg are replaced by artificial limbs. Loss of a second leg will leave a PC wheelchair bound, most likely ending a character’s adventuring career. 7. Lost Lung. This injury causes a permanent loss of 1d6-1 Constitution points (at least 1 point). A second lost lung results in an unraisable death. 8. Lost Eye. This injury causes a permanent loss of charisma (-2), dexterity (-2) and missile attack bonus (-2). SKILLS: Spot and search are at -4. A second lost eye results in permanent blindness. 9. Shattered Pelvis. This injury prevents a PC from moving smoothly, carrying weight and delivering blows. Loss of 1d6-2 (at least 1) dexterity, 1d4-2 (at least 1) strength, and ability to run. A second shattered Pelvis results in an additional loss of Dexterity and Strength and the ability to double move. 10. Shattered Shoulders. This injury damages a PC’s ability to deliver blows with melee and missile weapons, and to carry loads. Loss of 1d4 strength, loss of ability to use two handed weapons. A second shattered shoulder results in an additional loss of strength. 11. Shattered Larynx. This injury severely restricts a PC’s ability to communicate. There are two varieties, croakvoice (50%) and mute (50%). CROAKVOICE: The PC cannot speak over distances greater than 100 feet under normal conditions. Loss of 1d4 charisma. SKILLS. The following skills are at -2: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information and Profession. The following skills are at -6: Perform and Speak language. Intimidate checks are at +4. MUTE: The PC cannot speak at all. His friends will soon learn to communicate with him, but there is no “sign language” to learn. Loss of 1d4 charisma. SKILLS. The following skills are at -8: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information and Profession. The following skills are incapable of being performed: Perform and Speak language. Intimidate checks are at +4. A second Shattered Larynx automatically results in a mute, or if already mute, the PC is No Longer Quite Right. 12. Broken Skull. This injury creates a variety of telling effects to a PC’s ability to think and perceive. Loss of 1d4 Intelligence. Loss of 1d4-2 (may be 0) Wisdom. SKILLS: The following skills are at -4: Concentration, Knowledge, Listen, Profession, Sense Motive and Spot. A second Broken Skull results in an unraisable death. 13. No Longer Quite Right. The PC suffers from a shift in alignment towards chaos and, if already chaotic, the PC’s alignment becomes chaotic neutral. If already CN, the PC becomes LG 50% of the time and CE 50% of the time. More importantly, the PC suffers from a -1 on every D20 roll the PC takes. However, the PC becomes immune to charm and illusion spells and gains +6 to bluff , intimidate and sense motive checks. 14. Epiphany. While on death’s door, the PC has a great insight into his or her place in the world. The PC gains enough xps to reach his or her next level and gains one point in an ability score of choice. SAVE THE LIMB! When a PC is grievously injured, but not dead, and has lost a limb, the PC may ask that another PC with the heal skill attempt to save the limb. An attempt may only be made after the dying PC has stabilized. The attempt requires at least a knife or dagger and cloth and will take from 10-60 minutes. The Heal DC is 15 + 1d20 – the injured PC’s constitution bonus. The PC attempting to heal will learn the DC only after declaring the intention to attempt to save the limb. If the limb is saved, the injured PC is left with an intractable wound, but the limb is otherwise normal. If the healer fails the heal check, the injured PC suffers an unraisable death. Permanent Injury Table: 1-7 Lost Primary Hand 8-15 Lost Secondary Hand. 15-21 Lost Primary Arm. 22-29 Lost Secondary Arm. 30-36 Lost Foot. 37-44 Lost Leg. 45-51 Lost Lung. 52-59 Lost Eye. 60-66 Shattered Pelvis. 67-74 Shattered Shoulders. 75-81 Shattered Larynx. 82-89 Broken Skull. 90-98 No Longer Quite Right. 99-00 Epifany
DauntlessDave 01-04-07, 03:45 PM	I cant believe 43 people looked at this and no one commented. Maybe most forum readers are too busy playing 40th level characters to worry about ever reaching negative hitpoints, or risking a death that cannot be raised.
IbanezNinja 01-04-07, 03:51 PM	It's a terrible idea. Permanently gimping characters that had bad enough luck catching a powerful attack when they are already low on health is not cool. Critical hit tables, and anything related to them are bad for the game, period. Unless you are playing a dark and gritty game in which your pc's know they are going to die a horrible death there is no reason to put thing like it in the game.
DauntlessDave 01-04-07, 04:01 PM	I couldn't disagree more, obviously. The risk of being permanantly gimped makes combat actually matter. It puts the role, the story, the drama, back into the game. Also, the way the system works, the risk is actually quite small. With this houserule in place the PCs approach every fight with some trepidation, they plan harder and retreat more. In effect, they act more like the heros risking danger that a good RPG should model.
DreadArchon 01-04-07, 08:12 PM	death that cannot be raised. We have that now. :rolleyes:
Fake Healer 01-04-07, 11:55 PM	I also think this is a horrible idea. 13-14 encounters of an each level to level up. A 10th level character will have fought over 130 battles with many times that number of creatures. There is almost no chance that a PC could avoid these fates. I hope you have your group's agreement on this before you impose this rule on them or you will probably have a mutiny on your hands. This rule has no adverse effect on NPCs or monsters and serves to eventually cripple the whole party. How much do you lower the ECL of a sorcerer how loses a hand? Is it the same depreciation as a Rogue? Fighter? Bard? This rule could make a Rogue useless, while a wizard doesn't lose much. Bad, Bad, Bad idea! If you want a more lethal game I would suggest playing something else that has a similar set of rules to what you are trying to achieve (maybe Chuthlu). Trying to balance this nightmare of a houserule is almost impossible with all the different aspects of D20. You wanted opinions, here is mine and I know you probably will hate it by the response to the other poster who didn't sugar-coat about his dislike of this idea. FH
Tyler Do'Urden 01-05-07, 02:46 AM	It always bothered me that there was a magical way to erase every infirmaty a PC might encounter, and that this fact erased some of the drama and individuality that permanant injuries and maladies lend to a story. The usual way to solve this problem is to create a "Critical Hit Table" that might result in someone losing an arm or whatnot during a battle. No, the usual way to solve this "problem" is to play low level games with little access to magic. I played the cleric in a 1st-level party and I never had enough spells to keep these people healthy. I was usually fine, but the rest of them spent the entire adventure at least a little wounded.
Devlonir 01-05-07, 04:05 AM	If anyone in the modern world that did physical labor (say construction workers) would have an injury of the types you suggest during work. They would be forced to stop that line of work altogether and will probably have to retire. Do you think that any sane being who lost a leg would continue risking his life in adventure? And even if he would, the statistics you say that will drop, will make them completely useless. -4 on both dex AND str in every situation when you lose a leg.. there goes the fighter (you know, the one type of character nobody wants to play because they are usually the first to go down.. so will have to roll on this chart often.) And i don't think you would loose Str and dex in all situations when you loose a leg. How much do you use your leg when swinging an axe? How much do you use your leg when picking a lock? How much do you use your leg lifting yourself up? Most crippled people are actually STRONGER then non crippled people in the real world. In the end, I want to say.. I like the idea and where it comes from. I also think combat should be more lethal then it is now. But I do not think this a good way of achieving it. I am more for the massive damage rules of d20 modern. It forces the group to make every fight as fast and deadly as possible with getting as few hits as possible themselves and they will be forced to stop simply charging into combat but think things through.
Fake Healer 01-05-07, 11:46 PM	I couldn't disagree more, obviously. The risk of being permanantly gimped makes combat actually matter. It puts the role, the story, the drama, back into the game. Also, the way the system works, the risk is actually quite small. With this houserule in place the PCs approach every fight with some trepidation, they plan harder and retreat more. In effect, they act more like the heros risking danger that a good RPG should model. Any person dropped below 0 hps has a 30% chance of being permanently disfigured or crippled.......that is not a "quite small" risk. If they fall within the 30% range they take a fairly large charisma hit (with maybe a decent con hit) or a career ending injury. 30% is by no means a small risk. Most adventures are written to challenge PCs and usually end up with 2-3 dropping below 0 hp at some point. So every level 2-3 people risk a 30% chance to get maimed. The thrill is almost dying and being brought back from the brink, not being brought back from the brink to find you lose access to all your spells due to disfigurement (charisma damage)or no longer can use the greatsword that you spent 3 feats on improving your skill with. A little over 8 times someone will be permanently disfigured or maimed in your campaign by the time they reach 10th level (if you figure roughly 2.5 people dropping below 0 hp each level and those people having a 30% chance of rolling a disfigurement or maiming on your table). A party of 4 would have each character having 2 average by 10th level. A party of 6 would have 1.5 each. Sounds like a real fun game. FH
Lich_girl 02-19-07, 05:59 PM	I disagree with losing charisma for disfigurement, a penalty to Diplomacy and Gather Information with a bonus to Intimidate seems more reasonable. There is no reason why disfigurements should affect a sorcerer's spellcasting or a paladin's smite evil attack. Also a shattered larynx affecting Perform - some Perform abilities (e.g. stringed instruments) don't need a larynx. I'd change it to Perform abilities where speaking/singing is important. I'm not sure about permanent injuries, at least in a game where no-one has regenerate. A lot of players may retire their character, but I knew one person who was willing to play a paraplegic. On the whole, I like it, but make sure all your players agree.
meatpuppet 02-19-07, 07:23 PM	Maybe you should check out The Black Company Campaign Setting http://www.greenronin.com/catalog/grr1409 Grim & gritty all the way :devil: