Criticals and concealment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Criticals and concealment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Candin
06-07-07, 11:30 PM If you critical on a goon who'se in concealment, do you still roll to hit, or is it automatic?

An example, we were in a room with total darkness. Dm draws out a box and doesn't place figures on it. Basically you need to know where you are, and based on what the one guy who can see says, you need to discern where the bad guy is. So I poke the square that I know he's in. I roll a 20, crit. I'm told to roll for concealment, and I don't make it, so I miss my attack.

Is this within bounds? I always thought a critical was an automatic hit.
Inigo Carmine
06-07-07, 11:35 PM A natural 20 always beats armor class, that's it. There are a myriad of reasons why a natural 20 does not always result in a hit. Concealment (or miss chance from anything) is one of them.

Others include:

Target has total cover
Target is not within reach/ past max range increment
Target is on another plane
Deflect Arrows
Etc
Pentar
06-07-07, 11:36 PM If you critical on a goon who'se in concealment, do you still roll to hit, or is it automatic?

An example, we were in a room with total darkness. Dm draws out a box and doesn't place figures on it. Basically you need to know where you are, and based on what the one guy who can see says, you need to discern where the bad guy is. So I poke the square that I know he's in. I roll a 20, crit. I'm told to roll for concealment, and I don't make it, so I miss my attack.

Is this within bounds? I always thought a critical was an automatic hit.

There are no "automatic" critical hits anymore in D&D v3.5. If you roll a natural 20, you threaten a critical. You must then roll another d20 attack roll to see if you actually scored a critical. If you hit on the second roll, then you have "Confirmed" your crit and can roll your weapon's critical damage (usually x2 or x3).

Now concealment gives a creature an auto-miss chance, regardless of your roll. Even if you score a natural 20 (or whatever number it is you need to roll a critical hit, ranges from 18-20 usually), you still need to confirm that you actually hit the concealed creature. If you hit the concealed creature, you can then roll to confirm your critical.

Basically, your DM was right.
Nom
06-07-07, 11:44 PM It's often easier to check for concealment first, before figuring anything else.

Note that concealment applies per-attack. You don't check concealment on the attack roll, and then again on the confirmation roll.
Candin
06-08-07, 12:18 AM Thanks. I know how concealment works. And I know how criticals work, with this little exception.

We also did away with confirming criticals. GM houserule. I don't entirely mind, as I'm predominantly a spells kinda guy. I just wasn't sure how criticals worked in conjunction with cover / concealment.
tarkin
06-08-07, 11:32 AM You should always roll concealment first.

Why? Because if they are concealed, then it can prevent certainother things from happening.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Candin 06-07-07, 11:30 PM	If you critical on a goon who'se in concealment, do you still roll to hit, or is it automatic? An example, we were in a room with total darkness. Dm draws out a box and doesn't place figures on it. Basically you need to know where you are, and based on what the one guy who can see says, you need to discern where the bad guy is. So I poke the square that I know he's in. I roll a 20, crit. I'm told to roll for concealment, and I don't make it, so I miss my attack. Is this within bounds? I always thought a critical was an automatic hit.
Inigo Carmine 06-07-07, 11:35 PM	A natural 20 always beats armor class, that's it. There are a myriad of reasons why a natural 20 does not always result in a hit. Concealment (or miss chance from anything) is one of them. Others include: Target has total cover Target is not within reach/ past max range increment Target is on another plane Deflect Arrows Etc
Pentar 06-07-07, 11:36 PM	If you critical on a goon who'se in concealment, do you still roll to hit, or is it automatic? An example, we were in a room with total darkness. Dm draws out a box and doesn't place figures on it. Basically you need to know where you are, and based on what the one guy who can see says, you need to discern where the bad guy is. So I poke the square that I know he's in. I roll a 20, crit. I'm told to roll for concealment, and I don't make it, so I miss my attack. Is this within bounds? I always thought a critical was an automatic hit. There are no "automatic" critical hits anymore in D&D v3.5. If you roll a natural 20, you threaten a critical. You must then roll another d20 attack roll to see if you actually scored a critical. If you hit on the second roll, then you have "Confirmed" your crit and can roll your weapon's critical damage (usually x2 or x3). Now concealment gives a creature an auto-miss chance, regardless of your roll. Even if you score a natural 20 (or whatever number it is you need to roll a critical hit, ranges from 18-20 usually), you still need to confirm that you actually hit the concealed creature. If you hit the concealed creature, you can then roll to confirm your critical. Basically, your DM was right.
Nom 06-07-07, 11:44 PM	It's often easier to check for concealment first, before figuring anything else. Note that concealment applies per-attack. You don't check concealment on the attack roll, and then again on the confirmation roll.
Candin 06-08-07, 12:18 AM	Thanks. I know how concealment works. And I know how criticals work, with this little exception. We also did away with confirming criticals. GM houserule. I don't entirely mind, as I'm predominantly a spells kinda guy. I just wasn't sure how criticals worked in conjunction with cover / concealment.
tarkin 06-08-07, 11:32 AM	You should always roll concealment first. Why? Because if they are concealed, then it can prevent certainother things from happening.