CrossBow Fiddle [Archive] - Wizards Community

CrossBow Fiddle [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LiLRogue
03-25-07, 09:25 PM I am making a Bard and with the combination of weapon smithing and craft musical instruments, I want to make a fiddle crossbow. If you have any ideas please help. I don't know how to do it, and
I thought the great minds of wizards would.
LiLRogue
03-25-07, 10:06 PM I was thinking combing the two like a light crossbow and a fiddle and instead of having to take a move action to reload it would take a round and that all i got. And sorry for double posting i forgot about edit.
Kadrimdorian_Mage
03-25-07, 10:40 PM I personally designed a flute-dart gun which works great in my campain. It's all centered around the idea that if you close all of the holes, a quick burst of air could launch a dart through it, and it's been working out for me so far (maby it could be a snorkel too...).;)
Considering the way a crossbow works, you better have an easy-going DM.:( As I see it, theese two designs do not combine, because of the string positioning and mechanical workings. With quite a stretch, you could do this with a harp, and even that design would make a better bow than crossbow.
Resolution:Go with a song blade.:D
Cartigan
03-25-07, 11:40 PM I personally designed a flute-dart gun which works great in my campain. It's all centered around the idea that if you close all of the holes, a quick burst of air could launch a dart through it, and it's been working out for me so far (maby it could be a snorkel too...).;)
Considering the way a crossbow works, you better have an easy-going DM.:( As I see it, theese two designs do not combine, because of the string positioning and mechanical workings. With quite a stretch, you could do this with a harp, and even that design would make a better bow than crossbow.
Resolution:Go with a song blade.:D
Yeah, a flute and a blow gun don't exactly have major problems in physics differences.
A crossbow fiddle on the other hand literally isn't doable because a crossbow is a simple device, a device you wouldn't be able to implement and have a working fiddle. However, a bow fiddle is plausible, but only for maybe one shot, short distances, and at an improvised weapons penalty because a shortbow isn't designed as a musical instrument and musical instruments arn't bow weapons.
TheHarrow
03-25-07, 11:44 PM I love ideas like this. You've been told. Keep playing.
TheDarkLord
03-25-07, 11:52 PM She asked how she could create one, not that it wasn't feasible. God, do physics majors have imaginations?

Anyway, what I would do is kinda make a latch on the fiddle and the "Bow" part that you use to strum the chords could be the "Bow" part of the crossbow as well, the Fiddle would be the bracing and aiming mechanism. Statwise, i'd do something like this.

Fiddle Crossbow (light), Exotic, probably on the Bards Weapon list.
350 gp
1d6 (S) 1d8 (M) 19-20/×2
50 ft.
6 lb.
Piercing

You gain a +2 bonus on (Disguise???) checks made to conceal the weapon as a normal Fiddle.

Always Considered a Masterwork Weapon.

Edit: It takes a Move action to convert the Fiddle into a Crossbow, but 1 round to convert it back into a fiddle.
Cartigan
03-26-07, 12:08 AM She asked how she could create one, not that it wasn't feasible. God, do physics majors have imaginations?
I'm not a physics major, in fact I have never even had a physics class (ever), but I like logic. And logically you can not have a functional fiddle and a functional crossbow. But like I said, fiddle and standard bow, maybe.
LiLRogue
03-26-07, 12:08 AM She asked how she could create one, not that it wasn't feasible. God, do physics majors have imaginations?

Anyway, what I would do is kinda make a latch on the fiddle and the "Bow" part that you use to strum the chords could be the "Bow" part of the crossbow as well, the Fiddle would be the bracing and aiming mechanism. Statwise, i'd do something like this.

Fiddle Crossbow (light), Exotic, probably on the Bards Weapon list.
350 gp
1d6 (S) 1d8 (M) 19-20/×2
50 ft.
6 lb.
Piercing

You gain a +2 bonus on (Disguise???) checks made to conceal the weapon as a normal Fiddle.

Always Considered a Masterwork Weapon.

Edit: It takes a Move action to convert the Fiddle into a Crossbow, but 1 round to convert it back into a fiddle.

Sounds pretty good. Like the idea.
TheDarkLord
03-26-07, 12:17 AM I'm not a physics major, in fact I have never even had a physics class (ever), but I like logic. And logically you can not have a functional fiddle and a functional crossbow. But like I said, fiddle and standard bow, maybe.

Eh, it sounded like you wanted to get all "Physics are Awesome" on us, and since it's a Game, it kinda burns me up. But seriously, if Logic is concerned I suggest you ditch alot of the weapons in the PhB because most of them are quite pointless. Spears, Shortswords, Crossbows, and Longbows are all you ever need in real life.

When I can, in real life, stand outside of that greatsword's swing radius, never get close to the guy, and poke the wielder in the eye with the spear, and yet DnD simulates the Greatsword is a completely viable and awesome weapon, I think logic has already gone out the window.
Narris
03-26-07, 02:40 AM How about a lute-bow?

Urban Tools
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a
Cartigan
03-26-07, 07:26 AM How about a lute-bow?

Urban Tools
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a

That is the kind of thing I am talking about. A crossbow, as an entirely different thing from standard bow, is a simple machine and is therefore hard to make it out of something other than a crossbow. But if you want to get all uppity because I shot down something that doesn't make any sense, DarkLord, go ahead.
Ash the blackcowl
03-26-07, 11:18 AM In an old 3.0 game my party had a dwarven bard with a dwarven axe/guitar. The player is an art teacher and sketched a real cool pic of his PC with the weapon. I thought it was a really cool idea, like something from those *** animation movies my daughters love so much.
TheDarkLord
03-26-07, 12:02 PM But if you want to get all uppity because I shot down something that doesn't make any sense, DarkLord, go ahead.

I get uppity when people bring their real world logic into a Game that definately does not take into account real world logic.

Shooting down an Idea that would have an application in the real world is one thing, in a Fantasy game it's another.
Cartigan
03-26-07, 12:13 PM It takes into account enough logic that certain things can be ruled out as doable. Unless a fiddle isn't a fiddle and a crossbow is not actually a crossbow.
mugguod
03-26-07, 12:20 PM I picture it this way: You play a fiddle with a bow. To turn it into a crossbow, turn the fiddle upside-down, insert the bow into a clip on the back of the neck, and pull back the bow-string.

It would be less than optimal design for a crossbow (so use up an exotic weapon feat to be proficient), but it could still be a playable fiddle, good enough to fool the average listener. Another bard, who heard him play, might get +? on listen to notice the fiddle doesn't sound quite right.
Cartigan
03-26-07, 12:24 PM You still need a firing mechanism and such which would, if the fiddle is upside down, would screw with its use and weapon hiding, unless maybe if it was deattachable.

I would think something like a lyre would be better for a crossbow.
TheDarkLord
03-26-07, 01:33 PM It takes into account enough logic that certain things can be ruled out as doable. Unless a fiddle isn't a fiddle and a crossbow is not actually a crossbow.

What Logic?

Barbarians can fall from space and live?
Wizards can destroy the world with a few simple words?

DnD defies logic at every turn, there is no logic other than the core rules, and the core rules pretty much say I can have a Crossbow/Fiddle hybrid if I want. It doesn't Have to be logical in a world filled with magic and Dragons that can Defy the laws of physics by Flying.

After all, there is a spiked chain, and a Halberd and spear, while can be used as a double weapon In real Life, cannot be used as such in the DnD core rules set.
WhiteHarness
03-26-07, 02:24 PM I hope the campaign you're playing in is a comedy. This has got to be one of the ridiculous things I've ever read on this board. A fiddle-crossbow? Oh, please...:rolleyes: What inspires ideas like this? Is this an anime/manga thing?
Cartigan
03-26-07, 02:31 PM What Logic?

Barbarians can fall from space and live?
Wizards can destroy the world with a few simple words?

DnD defies logic at every turn,
Unless you take into account that it is a world of magic :rolleyes:

After all, there is a spiked chain, and a Halberd and spear, while can be used as a double weapon In real Life, cannot be used as such in the DnD core rules set.
I thought I saw somewhere that let you use the the blunt end as a blunt weapon for some penalty. Of course, would you actually use a spear or halberd like that anyway? And with all your "examples" of "illogic" you seem to not be realizing what a crossbow even is.

A crossbow is basically a bow on a gun. There is a locking mechanism for the drawn string and then a firing mechanism attached to the locking mechanism to unlock it and allow the bolt to be fired. Explain how that would go on a fiddle.
Inigo Carmine
03-26-07, 03:01 PM I get uppity when people bring their real world logic into a Game that definately does not take into account real world logic.

Shooting down an Idea that would have an application in the real world is one thing, in a Fantasy game it's another.

There is a certain amount of logic inherent in D&D though. It seems to me what is being proposed is supposed to be a mundane pice of equipment, not one made of magic.

Since a mundane piece of equipment should be somewhat based on reality, most people chose to answer that something like this wouldn't work.

If the op was asking to price something that could magically transform between a crossbow and a fiddle, it probably wouldn't have gotten many negative responses.
antsterr
03-26-07, 03:02 PM I picture it this way: You play a fiddle with a bow. To turn it into a crossbow, turn the fiddle upside-down, insert the bow into a clip on the back of the neck, and pull back the bow-string.

It would be less than optimal design for a crossbow (so use up an exotic weapon feat to be proficient), but it could still be a playable fiddle, good enough to fool the average listener. Another bard, who heard him play, might get +? on listen to notice the fiddle doesn't sound quite right.

Sounds totall resonable in fantasy game. In real life I'm sure an engineer could make a very complicated fiddle/bow that works but for us simple folk I think your design is great.
Azar
03-26-07, 03:24 PM Props on the idea - this is awesome.

I'd definately use the Lute-Bow as a template of source (Props to Narris). Something like:

Fiddle-Bow [Martial Weapon]
475 gp
Damage: 1d6 (Small) / 1d8 (Medium)
Critical: 19-20/x2
Range Increment: 60 ft.
Weight: 6 lb.
Search DC: 25

With a bit of intricate gear-work, not to mention a little elbow grease, this rather oblong looking fiddle transforms into a fully functional light crossbow.

As a full-round action the instrument can be turned upside down and triggered to release the weapon inside (The prods are spring out from the sides of the instrument and lock into place, the tickler slides out of the neck, the sturrip flips out of the bottom of the instrument).
Loading a Fiddle-Bow is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity.
A bard is considered proficient with the use of the Fiddle-Bow.

There's one very important think to remember when designing and implementing bizarre and seemingly-unfeasable ideas and concepts - this is a fantasy game. If the idea in question is fun, interesting, and sits well with the rest of your friends then there is no reason it shouldn't be allowed to take flight!

If you're group is looking for a more realistic game, then something like this would probably be rather jarring - thats okay too (I remember when one of my fellow players wanted to use Perform (Air Shamisen) as a bard in an oriental adventures campaign our DM was running. Oh boy, was that a little off the wall).

Have fun and stay frosty! :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LiLRogue 03-25-07, 09:25 PM	I am making a Bard and with the combination of weapon smithing and craft musical instruments, I want to make a fiddle crossbow. If you have any ideas please help. I don't know how to do it, and I thought the great minds of wizards would.
LiLRogue 03-25-07, 10:06 PM	I was thinking combing the two like a light crossbow and a fiddle and instead of having to take a move action to reload it would take a round and that all i got. And sorry for double posting i forgot about edit.
Kadrimdorian_Mage 03-25-07, 10:40 PM	I personally designed a flute-dart gun which works great in my campain. It's all centered around the idea that if you close all of the holes, a quick burst of air could launch a dart through it, and it's been working out for me so far (maby it could be a snorkel too...).;) Considering the way a crossbow works, you better have an easy-going DM.:( As I see it, theese two designs do not combine, because of the string positioning and mechanical workings. With quite a stretch, you could do this with a harp, and even that design would make a better bow than crossbow. Resolution:Go with a song blade.:D
Cartigan 03-25-07, 11:40 PM	I personally designed a flute-dart gun which works great in my campain. It's all centered around the idea that if you close all of the holes, a quick burst of air could launch a dart through it, and it's been working out for me so far (maby it could be a snorkel too...).;) Considering the way a crossbow works, you better have an easy-going DM.:( As I see it, theese two designs do not combine, because of the string positioning and mechanical workings. With quite a stretch, you could do this with a harp, and even that design would make a better bow than crossbow. Resolution:Go with a song blade.:D Yeah, a flute and a blow gun don't exactly have major problems in physics differences. A crossbow fiddle on the other hand literally isn't doable because a crossbow is a simple device, a device you wouldn't be able to implement and have a working fiddle. However, a bow fiddle is plausible, but only for maybe one shot, short distances, and at an improvised weapons penalty because a shortbow isn't designed as a musical instrument and musical instruments arn't bow weapons.
TheHarrow 03-25-07, 11:44 PM	I love ideas like this. You've been told. Keep playing.
TheDarkLord 03-25-07, 11:52 PM	She asked how she could create one, not that it wasn't feasible. God, do physics majors have imaginations? Anyway, what I would do is kinda make a latch on the fiddle and the "Bow" part that you use to strum the chords could be the "Bow" part of the crossbow as well, the Fiddle would be the bracing and aiming mechanism. Statwise, i'd do something like this. Fiddle Crossbow (light), Exotic, probably on the Bards Weapon list. 350 gp 1d6 (S) 1d8 (M) 19-20/×2 50 ft. 6 lb. Piercing You gain a +2 bonus on (Disguise???) checks made to conceal the weapon as a normal Fiddle. Always Considered a Masterwork Weapon. Edit: It takes a Move action to convert the Fiddle into a Crossbow, but 1 round to convert it back into a fiddle.
Cartigan 03-26-07, 12:08 AM	She asked how she could create one, not that it wasn't feasible. God, do physics majors have imaginations? I'm not a physics major, in fact I have never even had a physics class (ever), but I like logic. And logically you can not have a functional fiddle and a functional crossbow. But like I said, fiddle and standard bow, maybe.
LiLRogue 03-26-07, 12:08 AM	She asked how she could create one, not that it wasn't feasible. God, do physics majors have imaginations? Anyway, what I would do is kinda make a latch on the fiddle and the "Bow" part that you use to strum the chords could be the "Bow" part of the crossbow as well, the Fiddle would be the bracing and aiming mechanism. Statwise, i'd do something like this. Fiddle Crossbow (light), Exotic, probably on the Bards Weapon list. 350 gp 1d6 (S) 1d8 (M) 19-20/×2 50 ft. 6 lb. Piercing You gain a +2 bonus on (Disguise???) checks made to conceal the weapon as a normal Fiddle. Always Considered a Masterwork Weapon. Edit: It takes a Move action to convert the Fiddle into a Crossbow, but 1 round to convert it back into a fiddle. Sounds pretty good. Like the idea.
TheDarkLord 03-26-07, 12:17 AM	I'm not a physics major, in fact I have never even had a physics class (ever), but I like logic. And logically you can not have a functional fiddle and a functional crossbow. But like I said, fiddle and standard bow, maybe. Eh, it sounded like you wanted to get all "Physics are Awesome" on us, and since it's a Game, it kinda burns me up. But seriously, if Logic is concerned I suggest you ditch alot of the weapons in the PhB because most of them are quite pointless. Spears, Shortswords, Crossbows, and Longbows are all you ever need in real life. When I can, in real life, stand outside of that greatsword's swing radius, never get close to the guy, and poke the wielder in the eye with the spear, and yet DnD simulates the Greatsword is a completely viable and awesome weapon, I think logic has already gone out the window.
Narris 03-26-07, 02:40 AM	How about a lute-bow? Urban Tools http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a
Cartigan 03-26-07, 07:26 AM	How about a lute-bow? Urban Tools http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070314a That is the kind of thing I am talking about. A crossbow, as an entirely different thing from standard bow, is a simple machine and is therefore hard to make it out of something other than a crossbow. But if you want to get all uppity because I shot down something that doesn't make any sense, DarkLord, go ahead.
Ash the blackcowl 03-26-07, 11:18 AM	In an old 3.0 game my party had a dwarven bard with a dwarven axe/guitar. The player is an art teacher and sketched a real cool pic of his PC with the weapon. I thought it was a really cool idea, like something from those *** animation movies my daughters love so much.
TheDarkLord 03-26-07, 12:02 PM	But if you want to get all uppity because I shot down something that doesn't make any sense, DarkLord, go ahead. I get uppity when people bring their real world logic into a Game that definately does not take into account real world logic. Shooting down an Idea that would have an application in the real world is one thing, in a Fantasy game it's another.
Cartigan 03-26-07, 12:13 PM	It takes into account enough logic that certain things can be ruled out as doable. Unless a fiddle isn't a fiddle and a crossbow is not actually a crossbow.
mugguod 03-26-07, 12:20 PM	I picture it this way: You play a fiddle with a bow. To turn it into a crossbow, turn the fiddle upside-down, insert the bow into a clip on the back of the neck, and pull back the bow-string. It would be less than optimal design for a crossbow (so use up an exotic weapon feat to be proficient), but it could still be a playable fiddle, good enough to fool the average listener. Another bard, who heard him play, might get +? on listen to notice the fiddle doesn't sound quite right.
Cartigan 03-26-07, 12:24 PM	You still need a firing mechanism and such which would, if the fiddle is upside down, would screw with its use and weapon hiding, unless maybe if it was deattachable. I would think something like a lyre would be better for a crossbow.
TheDarkLord 03-26-07, 01:33 PM	It takes into account enough logic that certain things can be ruled out as doable. Unless a fiddle isn't a fiddle and a crossbow is not actually a crossbow. What Logic? Barbarians can fall from space and live? Wizards can destroy the world with a few simple words? DnD defies logic at every turn, there is no logic other than the core rules, and the core rules pretty much say I can have a Crossbow/Fiddle hybrid if I want. It doesn't Have to be logical in a world filled with magic and Dragons that can Defy the laws of physics by Flying. After all, there is a spiked chain, and a Halberd and spear, while can be used as a double weapon In real Life, cannot be used as such in the DnD core rules set.
WhiteHarness 03-26-07, 02:24 PM	I hope the campaign you're playing in is a comedy. This has got to be one of the ridiculous things I've ever read on this board. A fiddle-crossbow? Oh, please...:rolleyes: What inspires ideas like this? Is this an anime/manga thing?
Cartigan 03-26-07, 02:31 PM	What Logic? Barbarians can fall from space and live? Wizards can destroy the world with a few simple words? DnD defies logic at every turn, Unless you take into account that it is a world of magic :rolleyes: After all, there is a spiked chain, and a Halberd and spear, while can be used as a double weapon In real Life, cannot be used as such in the DnD core rules set. I thought I saw somewhere that let you use the the blunt end as a blunt weapon for some penalty. Of course, would you actually use a spear or halberd like that anyway? And with all your "examples" of "illogic" you seem to not be realizing what a crossbow even is. A crossbow is basically a bow on a gun. There is a locking mechanism for the drawn string and then a firing mechanism attached to the locking mechanism to unlock it and allow the bolt to be fired. Explain how that would go on a fiddle.
Inigo Carmine 03-26-07, 03:01 PM	I get uppity when people bring their real world logic into a Game that definately does not take into account real world logic. Shooting down an Idea that would have an application in the real world is one thing, in a Fantasy game it's another. There is a certain amount of logic inherent in D&D though. It seems to me what is being proposed is supposed to be a mundane pice of equipment, not one made of magic. Since a mundane piece of equipment should be somewhat based on reality, most people chose to answer that something like this wouldn't work. If the op was asking to price something that could magically transform between a crossbow and a fiddle, it probably wouldn't have gotten many negative responses.
antsterr 03-26-07, 03:02 PM	I picture it this way: You play a fiddle with a bow. To turn it into a crossbow, turn the fiddle upside-down, insert the bow into a clip on the back of the neck, and pull back the bow-string. It would be less than optimal design for a crossbow (so use up an exotic weapon feat to be proficient), but it could still be a playable fiddle, good enough to fool the average listener. Another bard, who heard him play, might get +? on listen to notice the fiddle doesn't sound quite right. Sounds totall resonable in fantasy game. In real life I'm sure an engineer could make a very complicated fiddle/bow that works but for us simple folk I think your design is great.
Azar 03-26-07, 03:24 PM	Props on the idea - this is awesome. I'd definately use the Lute-Bow as a template of source (Props to Narris). Something like: Fiddle-Bow [Martial Weapon] 475 gp Damage: 1d6 (Small) / 1d8 (Medium) Critical: 19-20/x2 Range Increment: 60 ft. Weight: 6 lb. Search DC: 25 With a bit of intricate gear-work, not to mention a little elbow grease, this rather oblong looking fiddle transforms into a fully functional light crossbow. As a full-round action the instrument can be turned upside down and triggered to release the weapon inside (The prods are spring out from the sides of the instrument and lock into place, the tickler slides out of the neck, the sturrip flips out of the bottom of the instrument). Loading a Fiddle-Bow is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity. A bard is considered proficient with the use of the Fiddle-Bow. There's one very important think to remember when designing and implementing bizarre and seemingly-unfeasable ideas and concepts - this is a fantasy game. If the idea in question is fun, interesting, and sits well with the rest of your friends then there is no reason it shouldn't be allowed to take flight! If you're group is looking for a more realistic game, then something like this would probably be rather jarring - thats okay too (I remember when one of my fellow players wanted to use Perform (Air Shamisen) as a bard in an oriental adventures campaign our DM was running. Oh boy, was that a little off the wall). Have fun and stay frosty! :D