Crossbows and Martial Weapon Proficiency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Crossbows and Martial Weapon Proficiency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jaelis
12-16-06, 08:19 AM A couple weapons in my campaign have dual proficiency. For instance, a dagger can be used in melee as a simple weapon, or thrown as a martial weapon.

I had the idea to do the same with crossbows, where with martial weapon proficiency you can load them quickly like with the Rapid Reload feat.

The idea would be to let martial characters whose concept favored crossbows (like pretty much any urban-themed character) use them efficiently without burning a feat.

Anybody see any problems with that? They are still pretty much inferior to bows unless you have a strength penalty, and if you're a martial character with a str penalty then you have enough problems already.
Bluebrush
12-16-06, 08:23 AM Sounds good to me, if you can keep everything straight in your player's heads.

Also, work out how this would work for classes which are proficient with some, but not all martial weapons.

Should Rogues and bards get this crossbow benefit, for example.
draconic_swine
12-16-06, 12:16 PM I like it, and it's pretty much balanced - all you're doing is swapping needing one feat for another to get the same benefit. It just so happens that several classes already have that feat.

To what Bluebrush said, I personally wouldn't give rogues and bards this benefit. They don't seem martial enough for me.

jaelis, what other dual-proficiency weapons do you have? The idea intrigues me. I didn't like simple daggers having a range increment in my campaign, so I made the throwing dagger a sepearte martial weapon, but I like your idea better. I'd love to see what else you have.
pres_man
12-16-06, 01:12 PM What about hand crossbows?
WarlockOfSiberys
12-16-06, 01:47 PM Personally, I have been wanting to do something along the same lines. I have the regular dagger, that anyone can use in melee or throw as a simple weapon, same as the PHB. I also however planned on statting out a real "throwing" knife for my campaigns.

Martial Weapon, Ranged
Throwing knife*1d6 x2, 20 ft, Piercing, 1lb 5gp
*This weapon is made for ranged attacks, all melee attacks with this weapon are made at a -4 penalty to the attack roll

I also have a house-rule on spears. The regular PHB spear can be used as a simple weapon in two hands. However, the spear can be used in one hand as a martial weapon. Also, if they take the Exotic Weap. Prof. (longspear), they may use that in one hand as well.

Oh, and just a minor change, I allow the saber, which is the same as the rapier except it does slashing damage. I am debating as to allow a +2 bonus on rapiers and sabers to prevent from being disarmed.
Ephraim
12-16-06, 01:52 PM I would also recommend knowing what to do if a character with martial weapon proficiency selects the Rapid Reload feat. It may be as simple as saying, "they're redundant" but know that in advance.
jaelis
12-16-06, 03:04 PM To what Bluebrush said, I personally wouldn't give rogues and bards this benefit. They don't seem martial enough for me.

I concur. I gave them MWP(dagger), but I wouldn't give them this.

jaelis, what other dual-proficiency weapons do you have? The idea intrigues me. I didn't like simple daggers having a range increment in my campaign, so I made the throwing dagger a sepearte martial weapon, but I like your idea better. I'd love to see what else you have.
I have a light axe that does 1d4/x3, which is a simple melee weapon and martial thrown. And I did the same with the light hammer (cutting its throwing range to 10 ft). In return, I ditched the punching dagger and got no complaints.

I have a throwing knife too, as a martial weapon that does 1d3/x2, 10 ft range, but you can draw it freely like ammunition. Bards and rogues get it.

I've thought about doing something similar with letting an EWP feat let you attack a 5 ft with a polearm. I think it would be balanced, but haven't thought hard about it.

I would also recommend knowing what to do if a character with martial weapon proficiency selects the Rapid Reload feat. It may be as simple as saying, "they're redundant" but know that in advance.

Yes, I'd make it just redundant. Although there's still a place for the feat, since it covers both the light and heavy crossbow, while taking the MWP feat itself would just get you one of them.

Edit- Actually, you could allow a character with both MWP and Rapid Reload to load a heavy crossbow as a free action. Hmm.

As for spears, that's a whole other thing. Personally I think they are a little too strong for 1H martial weapons, so I have them use the bastard sword mechanic, which I've also modified a bit. I just have one feat that lets you wield any "hand-and-a-half" weapon in one hand, and I put the spear on that list. I'm pretty happy with that too; the EWP feat for a bastard sword never seemed quite good enough, but the broader version is kind of nice.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jaelis 12-16-06, 08:19 AM	A couple weapons in my campaign have dual proficiency. For instance, a dagger can be used in melee as a simple weapon, or thrown as a martial weapon. I had the idea to do the same with crossbows, where with martial weapon proficiency you can load them quickly like with the Rapid Reload feat. The idea would be to let martial characters whose concept favored crossbows (like pretty much any urban-themed character) use them efficiently without burning a feat. Anybody see any problems with that? They are still pretty much inferior to bows unless you have a strength penalty, and if you're a martial character with a str penalty then you have enough problems already.
Bluebrush 12-16-06, 08:23 AM	Sounds good to me, if you can keep everything straight in your player's heads. Also, work out how this would work for classes which are proficient with some, but not all martial weapons. Should Rogues and bards get this crossbow benefit, for example.
draconic_swine 12-16-06, 12:16 PM	I like it, and it's pretty much balanced - all you're doing is swapping needing one feat for another to get the same benefit. It just so happens that several classes already have that feat. To what Bluebrush said, I personally wouldn't give rogues and bards this benefit. They don't seem martial enough for me. jaelis, what other dual-proficiency weapons do you have? The idea intrigues me. I didn't like simple daggers having a range increment in my campaign, so I made the throwing dagger a sepearte martial weapon, but I like your idea better. I'd love to see what else you have.
pres_man 12-16-06, 01:12 PM	What about hand crossbows?
WarlockOfSiberys 12-16-06, 01:47 PM	Personally, I have been wanting to do something along the same lines. I have the regular dagger, that anyone can use in melee or throw as a simple weapon, same as the PHB. I also however planned on statting out a real "throwing" knife for my campaigns. Martial Weapon, Ranged Throwing knife1d6 x2, 20 ft, Piercing, 1lb 5gp This weapon is made for ranged attacks, all melee attacks with this weapon are made at a -4 penalty to the attack roll I also have a house-rule on spears. The regular PHB spear can be used as a simple weapon in two hands. However, the spear can be used in one hand as a martial weapon. Also, if they take the Exotic Weap. Prof. (longspear), they may use that in one hand as well. Oh, and just a minor change, I allow the saber, which is the same as the rapier except it does slashing damage. I am debating as to allow a +2 bonus on rapiers and sabers to prevent from being disarmed.
Ephraim 12-16-06, 01:52 PM	I would also recommend knowing what to do if a character with martial weapon proficiency selects the Rapid Reload feat. It may be as simple as saying, "they're redundant" but know that in advance.
jaelis 12-16-06, 03:04 PM	To what Bluebrush said, I personally wouldn't give rogues and bards this benefit. They don't seem martial enough for me. I concur. I gave them MWP(dagger), but I wouldn't give them this. jaelis, what other dual-proficiency weapons do you have? The idea intrigues me. I didn't like simple daggers having a range increment in my campaign, so I made the throwing dagger a sepearte martial weapon, but I like your idea better. I'd love to see what else you have. I have a light axe that does 1d4/x3, which is a simple melee weapon and martial thrown. And I did the same with the light hammer (cutting its throwing range to 10 ft). In return, I ditched the punching dagger and got no complaints. I have a throwing knife too, as a martial weapon that does 1d3/x2, 10 ft range, but you can draw it freely like ammunition. Bards and rogues get it. I've thought about doing something similar with letting an EWP feat let you attack a 5 ft with a polearm. I think it would be balanced, but haven't thought hard about it. I would also recommend knowing what to do if a character with martial weapon proficiency selects the Rapid Reload feat. It may be as simple as saying, "they're redundant" but know that in advance. Yes, I'd make it just redundant. Although there's still a place for the feat, since it covers both the light and heavy crossbow, while taking the MWP feat itself would just get you one of them. Edit- Actually, you could allow a character with both MWP and Rapid Reload to load a heavy crossbow as a free action. Hmm. As for spears, that's a whole other thing. Personally I think they are a little too strong for 1H martial weapons, so I have them use the bastard sword mechanic, which I've also modified a bit. I just have one feat that lets you wield any "hand-and-a-half" weapon in one hand, and I put the spear on that list. I'm pretty happy with that too; the EWP feat for a bastard sword never seemed quite good enough, but the broader version is kind of nice.