CRUSADER question [Archive] - Wizards Community

CRUSADER question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
moocow1
02-06-07, 10:39 PM One of the players i DM for started multiclassing as a Crusader. He's a 4th Barbarian, 3rd Crusader, and has the Stone Power feat, which is causing the problem. Every round of combat he takes a -3 on his attacks to gain 6 temporary Hp's. He has 3 attacks per round since he uses shield bash, and uses the Martial Strike stance at all times to gain Hp's. Now what's causing me problems is i'll attack him for 10pts damage, 5 of those points go in his damage pool from Steely Resolve, which will come off of his Hp's at the END of his next round. On the beginning of his round, he uses the Stone Power feat to gain 6 temporary hit points, and then attacks gaining even more hp's from Martial Strike, if he hits all three times, that's 6more hp's. Then at the end of his round the 5pts in his Steely Resolve hit him, but according to him they will come off his total hit points, which has the 6 temporary on it......anyways my question is, according to the way it reads, the 6 temporary he's getting from Stone Power at the first of the round are basically cancelling out 5 hit points of damage he would be taking at end of the round from steely resolve....is this correct? Also, with the hp's he's gaining from martial strike, i pretty much have to hit him for over 10pts of damage a round to actually affect him........which is nuts for a 7th lvl char. Any help would be appreciated.
fatal error
02-06-07, 11:55 PM Using the Temp. HP to cancel out the Steely Resolve pool sounds like it should work. Also note that Stone Power works differently than Power Attack in that: A) You don't have to hit to get the Temporary Hit Point and B) You don't gain more Temporary Hit Points for making multiple attacks.

So yes, he's turned himself into a quite effective tank. Of course, doing more than 10 points of damage shouldn't be a challenge at level 7 for any foes specializing in damage. Sure, meat-shield types might struggle, but, in the case of classed NPCs, all these should challenge that character reasonably well:
Rogues/Sneak Attackers
Damage Spells (5d6 averages to 17.5 damage, that's what a CR 5 can dish out to the entire party for the first couple rounds)
Save-or-Lose Spells (Charm, Hold Person, Pyrotechnics, Hideous Laughter, all of which are 2nd level spells that can hurt if his Cha or Wis aren't good)
Damage-based Martial Adepts (Insightful Strike, Assassin's Stance, Soaring Raptor Strike (if smaller), Death Mark, Bonecrusher, Battle Leader's Charge, all 3rd or 2nd level maneuvers that can be quite damaging when backed by a swordsage or warblade with a good strength and a big weapon).
Richmud
02-07-07, 01:08 PM The stone power trick works, however you can't attack more then once with a strike as a strike is a standard action

Also how is he using the same maneuver every turn?
fatal error
02-07-07, 02:42 PM The stone power trick works, however you can't attack more then once with a strike as a strike is a standard action

Also how is he using the same maneuver every turn?

I think the OP meant Martial Stance? The one that heals 2HP every time you hit something. In which case he may or may not be cheating by using multiple attacks with strikes.
Reiner
02-07-07, 03:09 PM From what the OP said, the characater isn't using any strikes at the moment. He is using the Stone Power feat, which gives 2x temp hit points for the amount of negative you take to hit. Works with Strikes and regular full attacks. He is also using Martial Stance, which heals the characater 2hps each time he connect with a hit.

So the character is attacking twice with his main hands once with his off hand shield, gaining 2 hp for each hit and 6 temp hp's for -3 stone power. It makes him a great tank. But it has also sank his will/reflex save. Base 2 + ability mods each.

And, there are alot of CR7 monsters of NPC's that can put a hurting on him. Certainly not kill, but hurt. (Any huge elemental, 8 headed hydra, remorhaz, flesh golem, hill giant, dragoone, etc. etc.) And if they are smart, they will beat on some other party member, since the cursader isn't going to be hitting well with -2 for twf and -3 for stone power. And anything that forces a will save will put a smacking on him (including succubus, Dragonne, enemey casters, etc)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
moocow1 02-06-07, 10:39 PM	One of the players i DM for started multiclassing as a Crusader. He's a 4th Barbarian, 3rd Crusader, and has the Stone Power feat, which is causing the problem. Every round of combat he takes a -3 on his attacks to gain 6 temporary Hp's. He has 3 attacks per round since he uses shield bash, and uses the Martial Strike stance at all times to gain Hp's. Now what's causing me problems is i'll attack him for 10pts damage, 5 of those points go in his damage pool from Steely Resolve, which will come off of his Hp's at the END of his next round. On the beginning of his round, he uses the Stone Power feat to gain 6 temporary hit points, and then attacks gaining even more hp's from Martial Strike, if he hits all three times, that's 6more hp's. Then at the end of his round the 5pts in his Steely Resolve hit him, but according to him they will come off his total hit points, which has the 6 temporary on it......anyways my question is, according to the way it reads, the 6 temporary he's getting from Stone Power at the first of the round are basically cancelling out 5 hit points of damage he would be taking at end of the round from steely resolve....is this correct? Also, with the hp's he's gaining from martial strike, i pretty much have to hit him for over 10pts of damage a round to actually affect him........which is nuts for a 7th lvl char. Any help would be appreciated.
fatal error 02-06-07, 11:55 PM	Using the Temp. HP to cancel out the Steely Resolve pool sounds like it should work. Also note that Stone Power works differently than Power Attack in that: A) You don't have to hit to get the Temporary Hit Point and B) You don't gain more Temporary Hit Points for making multiple attacks. So yes, he's turned himself into a quite effective tank. Of course, doing more than 10 points of damage shouldn't be a challenge at level 7 for any foes specializing in damage. Sure, meat-shield types might struggle, but, in the case of classed NPCs, all these should challenge that character reasonably well: Rogues/Sneak Attackers Damage Spells (5d6 averages to 17.5 damage, that's what a CR 5 can dish out to the entire party for the first couple rounds) Save-or-Lose Spells (Charm, Hold Person, Pyrotechnics, Hideous Laughter, all of which are 2nd level spells that can hurt if his Cha or Wis aren't good) Damage-based Martial Adepts (Insightful Strike, Assassin's Stance, Soaring Raptor Strike (if smaller), Death Mark, Bonecrusher, Battle Leader's Charge, all 3rd or 2nd level maneuvers that can be quite damaging when backed by a swordsage or warblade with a good strength and a big weapon).
Richmud 02-07-07, 01:08 PM	The stone power trick works, however you can't attack more then once with a strike as a strike is a standard action Also how is he using the same maneuver every turn?
fatal error 02-07-07, 02:42 PM	The stone power trick works, however you can't attack more then once with a strike as a strike is a standard action Also how is he using the same maneuver every turn? I think the OP meant Martial Stance? The one that heals 2HP every time you hit something. In which case he may or may not be cheating by using multiple attacks with strikes.
Reiner 02-07-07, 03:09 PM	From what the OP said, the characater isn't using any strikes at the moment. He is using the Stone Power feat, which gives 2x temp hit points for the amount of negative you take to hit. Works with Strikes and regular full attacks. He is also using Martial Stance, which heals the characater 2hps each time he connect with a hit. So the character is attacking twice with his main hands once with his off hand shield, gaining 2 hp for each hit and 6 temp hp's for -3 stone power. It makes him a great tank. But it has also sank his will/reflex save. Base 2 + ability mods each. And, there are alot of CR7 monsters of NPC's that can put a hurting on him. Certainly not kill, but hurt. (Any huge elemental, 8 headed hydra, remorhaz, flesh golem, hill giant, dragoone, etc. etc.) And if they are smart, they will beat on some other party member, since the cursader isn't going to be hitting well with -2 for twf and -3 for stone power. And anything that forces a will save will put a smacking on him (including succubus, Dragonne, enemey casters, etc)