Cry Havoc vs. Fields of Blood [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cry Havoc vs. Fields of Blood [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nalgoth
03-25-05, 02:08 PM I am looking for a book with good rules for mass combat.

I already have the miniature's handbook, but I'm not really satisfied with the rules for mass combat in it.

I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the third party books Cry Havoc or Fields of Blood: The Book of War.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Vahenir
03-25-05, 10:12 PM I have both.

I'm not a big fan of either ruleset actually. Fields of Blood is more detailed, with various nifty little tidbits and a more general approach. Cry Havoc is very specifically regimented. The rules in Cry Havoc are probably better, but more constrictive. Fields of Blood is a bit more out there and will probably require some tweaking - but are more open-ended.

I suggets going to your local gaming store and looking through both before making a decision.
twad
03-25-05, 11:02 PM mass combat:

http://www.farlandcampaign.homestead.com/

download the little program. This thing is awesome for mass combat.

AND

User-friendly.
Nalgoth
03-26-05, 02:40 AM Thanks for the help thus far.

I did stop by the gaming store yesterday and they didn't have either book. Is there any other mass combat books, or where the ones I mentioned the only ones out there.

That Farland site is pretty cool, although I don't think the mass combat program was what I had in mind.

If the actual mechanics are better in Cry Havoc, I might order that one.
Monteblanco
03-26-05, 09:44 AM I don't have either but I borrowed and made a comparative read of them. Fields of Blood impressed me much more than Cry Havoc. Not only is far more comprehensive but also the rules sounded better.

However, I've to tell you that I decided that I didn't need any of them.
Nalgoth
03-26-05, 10:22 AM Hmmm, one vote Cry Havoc, one vote Fields of Blood. Back to square one. Has anyone else seen these books. Interestingly enough, I have the 1e BATTLESYSTEM, maybe I should just convert it to 3.5.
radu the wanderer
03-26-05, 12:29 PM well, this is a bit unfair, as I don't have Fields of Blood, but my vote's with Cry Havoc.

It uses the same mechanics you're already familiar with, just scaled up. And it makes pretty good sense-- none of the rules are particularly complex or hard to justify.

The thing with mass combat is KISS: Keep It Simple, Stupid!

DND combat already takes up a HEINOUSLY disproportionate amount of game time--- you don't need complicated rules bogging that down.

Especially mass combat. MOST ESPECIALLY mass combat.

I used Cry Havoc rules to run a minor war in my campaign-- the PC's were able to participate in a battle between two kindgoms that involved two dragons, spellcaster artillery, and dire elk elven cavalry. It was awesome!

You do put in a little more work in terms of prep time, but once you've got all the stats figured out, things generally go pretty smoothly. Cry Havoc is great for relatively quick battle resolution, and it can be used to model a small part of a greater battle, a small border skirmish, or an epic war with equal ease.

I'd have to say it's the best mass combat system I've seen for DnD so far.
q'afuu
03-26-05, 12:47 PM Same here. I only have Cry Havoc!, but I'm pretty happy with the rules in it.
Jedi_Councilman
03-26-05, 01:10 PM How big of a battle can you do with Cry Havoc?
Vahenir
03-26-05, 01:35 PM Both Fields of Blood and Cry Havoc allow for battles as big as you're willing to deal with. The only catch (and you will not be able to avoid this) is the bigger the armies - the more complex the game gets.

And in answer to your other question as to any other books that have Mass Combat systems:

Testament: Roleplaying in the Biblical Era and The Trojan War both by Green Ronin share the same mass combat rules. The Trojan War's rules are an updated version of the ones originally printed in Testament.

And Charge!: A Military Rules Supplement by Living Imagination Games also has very open-ended rules concerning things like arrow volleys and other aspects of war, without getting too rules-intense.
Nalgoth
03-26-05, 05:17 PM Thanks guys,

Unless I actually manage to get a look at both books (which is unlikely), I will probably order Cry Havoc
Jedi_Councilman
03-26-05, 09:24 PM What role do PCs play in Cry Havoc battles?
Vahenir
03-27-05, 12:40 AM Leaders, superior troops, or "special ops" depending on how you play.
Jedi_Councilman
03-27-05, 06:35 PM I read a blurb about Fields of Blood and it mentioned rules about running nations. I was wondering how that worked and if it was any good.
Vahenir
03-27-05, 07:42 PM Yeah, it's good.

Think 2E's Castle Guide. It's basically rules for building and maintaining different structures, as well as how to deal with taxation and I think there's a small section on laws and justice.
Monteblanco
03-27-05, 10:03 PM I read a blurb about Fields of Blood and it mentioned rules about running nations. I was wondering how that worked and if it was any good.

Yeah, Fields of Blood includes such rules and they appear to work pretty well. The actual owner of the book I borrowed love them and have a lot of fun with his solo game. It is not for me, but it was a good read.
Monteblanco
03-27-05, 10:20 PM Do you know that you can access some review site to get some opinions about these book? There are several reviews in EN World, including for Fields of Blood and Cry Havoc. Both are well rated, but the reading of the actual reviews may help you to decide which one would be better to you.

Links at ENWorld -- Cute & paste as Wizards' Boards are kind of unfriendly to outside links and don't work with those.

Fields of Blood: http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=118518

Cry Havoc: http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=118593
Soulmage
03-28-05, 09:36 AM There's another option out there. The Black Company campaign setting. Its a military themed setting that involves a great deal of war and conflict. It has a mass combat system that is similar to Cry Havoc, but might be a little better suited to your needs.

Unlike Cry Havoc, it has rules for incorporating squads into individual character combat. That way you can run large numbers of opponents still at the character level. Also, the system is a little simpler than the Cry Havoc system and doesn't make some rather large and illogical assumptions.

Plus, there's all kinds of other great stuff in the book that you'll probably find interesting. :)

Anyway, the best place to order it is probably Amazon where you can get it for $29.00. Check out my sig for more info.
Jedi_Councilman
03-28-05, 10:30 AM Yeah, a friend of mine loaned the Black Company to me but I'm using my own setting and classes and such, and there's no way I'm buying a book for just one chapter.

I think I'm going with Fields of Blood. One final question: Are there any new skills introduced in the book like Battle or Command?
Vahenir
03-28-05, 03:02 PM Yes.
Jedi_Councilman
03-28-05, 09:11 PM Could you tell me what they are or at least how many there are? I ask because I need to stat some NPCs for the game I want to use FoB with.
Vahenir
03-28-05, 09:51 PM I think there's just one.. called Command. But I don't have the book on me and I bought it awhile ago.. so it's been a bit since I last read it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nalgoth 03-25-05, 02:08 PM	I am looking for a book with good rules for mass combat. I already have the miniature's handbook, but I'm not really satisfied with the rules for mass combat in it. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with the third party books Cry Havoc or Fields of Blood: The Book of War. Any help would be much appreciated.
Vahenir 03-25-05, 10:12 PM	I have both. I'm not a big fan of either ruleset actually. Fields of Blood is more detailed, with various nifty little tidbits and a more general approach. Cry Havoc is very specifically regimented. The rules in Cry Havoc are probably better, but more constrictive. Fields of Blood is a bit more out there and will probably require some tweaking - but are more open-ended. I suggets going to your local gaming store and looking through both before making a decision.
twad 03-25-05, 11:02 PM	mass combat: http://www.farlandcampaign.homestead.com/ download the little program. This thing is awesome for mass combat. AND User-friendly.
Nalgoth 03-26-05, 02:40 AM	Thanks for the help thus far. I did stop by the gaming store yesterday and they didn't have either book. Is there any other mass combat books, or where the ones I mentioned the only ones out there. That Farland site is pretty cool, although I don't think the mass combat program was what I had in mind. If the actual mechanics are better in Cry Havoc, I might order that one.
Monteblanco 03-26-05, 09:44 AM	I don't have either but I borrowed and made a comparative read of them. Fields of Blood impressed me much more than Cry Havoc. Not only is far more comprehensive but also the rules sounded better. However, I've to tell you that I decided that I didn't need any of them.
Nalgoth 03-26-05, 10:22 AM	Hmmm, one vote Cry Havoc, one vote Fields of Blood. Back to square one. Has anyone else seen these books. Interestingly enough, I have the 1e BATTLESYSTEM, maybe I should just convert it to 3.5.
radu the wanderer 03-26-05, 12:29 PM	well, this is a bit unfair, as I don't have Fields of Blood, but my vote's with Cry Havoc. It uses the same mechanics you're already familiar with, just scaled up. And it makes pretty good sense-- none of the rules are particularly complex or hard to justify. The thing with mass combat is KISS: Keep It Simple, Stupid! DND combat already takes up a HEINOUSLY disproportionate amount of game time--- you don't need complicated rules bogging that down. Especially mass combat. MOST ESPECIALLY mass combat. I used Cry Havoc rules to run a minor war in my campaign-- the PC's were able to participate in a battle between two kindgoms that involved two dragons, spellcaster artillery, and dire elk elven cavalry. It was awesome! You do put in a little more work in terms of prep time, but once you've got all the stats figured out, things generally go pretty smoothly. Cry Havoc is great for relatively quick battle resolution, and it can be used to model a small part of a greater battle, a small border skirmish, or an epic war with equal ease. I'd have to say it's the best mass combat system I've seen for DnD so far.
q'afuu 03-26-05, 12:47 PM	Same here. I only have Cry Havoc!, but I'm pretty happy with the rules in it.
Jedi_Councilman 03-26-05, 01:10 PM	How big of a battle can you do with Cry Havoc?
Vahenir 03-26-05, 01:35 PM	Both Fields of Blood and Cry Havoc allow for battles as big as you're willing to deal with. The only catch (and you will not be able to avoid this) is the bigger the armies - the more complex the game gets. And in answer to your other question as to any other books that have Mass Combat systems: Testament: Roleplaying in the Biblical Era and The Trojan War both by Green Ronin share the same mass combat rules. The Trojan War's rules are an updated version of the ones originally printed in Testament. And Charge!: A Military Rules Supplement by Living Imagination Games also has very open-ended rules concerning things like arrow volleys and other aspects of war, without getting too rules-intense.
Nalgoth 03-26-05, 05:17 PM	Thanks guys, Unless I actually manage to get a look at both books (which is unlikely), I will probably order Cry Havoc
Jedi_Councilman 03-26-05, 09:24 PM	What role do PCs play in Cry Havoc battles?
Vahenir 03-27-05, 12:40 AM	Leaders, superior troops, or "special ops" depending on how you play.
Jedi_Councilman 03-27-05, 06:35 PM	I read a blurb about Fields of Blood and it mentioned rules about running nations. I was wondering how that worked and if it was any good.
Vahenir 03-27-05, 07:42 PM	Yeah, it's good. Think 2E's Castle Guide. It's basically rules for building and maintaining different structures, as well as how to deal with taxation and I think there's a small section on laws and justice.
Monteblanco 03-27-05, 10:03 PM	I read a blurb about Fields of Blood and it mentioned rules about running nations. I was wondering how that worked and if it was any good. Yeah, Fields of Blood includes such rules and they appear to work pretty well. The actual owner of the book I borrowed love them and have a lot of fun with his solo game. It is not for me, but it was a good read.
Monteblanco 03-27-05, 10:20 PM	Do you know that you can access some review site to get some opinions about these book? There are several reviews in EN World, including for Fields of Blood and Cry Havoc. Both are well rated, but the reading of the actual reviews may help you to decide which one would be better to you. Links at ENWorld -- Cute & paste as Wizards' Boards are kind of unfriendly to outside links and don't work with those. Fields of Blood: http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=118518 Cry Havoc: http://www.enworld.org/reviews.php?do=product&productid=118593
Soulmage 03-28-05, 09:36 AM	There's another option out there. The Black Company campaign setting. Its a military themed setting that involves a great deal of war and conflict. It has a mass combat system that is similar to Cry Havoc, but might be a little better suited to your needs. Unlike Cry Havoc, it has rules for incorporating squads into individual character combat. That way you can run large numbers of opponents still at the character level. Also, the system is a little simpler than the Cry Havoc system and doesn't make some rather large and illogical assumptions. Plus, there's all kinds of other great stuff in the book that you'll probably find interesting. :) Anyway, the best place to order it is probably Amazon where you can get it for $29.00. Check out my sig for more info.
Jedi_Councilman 03-28-05, 10:30 AM	Yeah, a friend of mine loaned the Black Company to me but I'm using my own setting and classes and such, and there's no way I'm buying a book for just one chapter. I think I'm going with Fields of Blood. One final question: Are there any new skills introduced in the book like Battle or Command?
Vahenir 03-28-05, 03:02 PM	Yes.
Jedi_Councilman 03-28-05, 09:11 PM	Could you tell me what they are or at least how many there are? I ask because I need to stat some NPCs for the game I want to use FoB with.
Vahenir 03-28-05, 09:51 PM	I think there's just one.. called Command. But I don't have the book on me and I bought it awhile ago.. so it's been a bit since I last read it.