Post/Author/DateTime	Post
necrosnoop110 04-16-08, 11:13 AM	It's clear that the Cube of Force (magic item) blocks selected forms from going outside to inside the cube but my question is can you make those very same selected forms go from inside to outside the cube? For example if you set the cube to block nonliving matter coming into the cube can you shoot a non-living arrow out of the cube? Thanks, Necropimp
jaelis 04-16-08, 02:07 PM	Says it works like wall of force, which is impervious both ways.
necrosnoop110 04-16-08, 02:44 PM	Says it works like wall of force, which is impervious both ways. A few holes in that line of reasoning: 1) Firstly, it specifically says the cube puts up a "special wall of force." The common definition of special is "distinguished by some unusual quality; especially : being in some way superior" so acting in a different manner than the standard wall of force spell seems very reasonable off the get go. 2) Also, it can't work just like a standard wall of force simply because it allows for selective blocking. Since you can block out nonliving matter but allow living matter in and out (e.g. a dog) this item clearly is not an unsophisticated block-all that a normal wall of force is. 3) In addition, it says that "these spells (given in the list below) cannot be cast into or out of the cube." If the cube of force acts just like a standard wall of force then why do they even need to specify that these spells cannot be cast out? This begs the question if those spells cannot be cast out of the cube does this mean that other spells can be cast out of the cube? 4) Furthermore, in the effect columns for each face of the cube it phrases each selection with the word out. As in "keeps out living matter." I interpret this to mean that the selected form is stopped from going from outside to inside the cube. It says nothing about that type or form from being blocked from going inside to outside. I'm not 100% certain I am interpreting this item correctly but I am certain that "oh, it works just like wall of force" is insufficient to explain its effects. Peace, Necro-dog
groveborn 04-16-08, 05:07 PM	Cube Face Charge Cost per Minute Maximum Speed Effect Keeps out gases, wind, etc. Keeps out nonliving matter Keeps out living matter Keeps out magic Keeps out all things As normal Deactivates The table doesn't display right, so please forgive the editing. Anyway, it states nothing at all about blocking things, only keeping them out. Therefore, reasonably, things can leave as they please.
jaelis 04-16-08, 09:16 PM	Seems to me that when an item references a spell, it usually means that the item duplicates the spell with exceptions to follow. Obviously, the selectivity and the sensitivity to particular spells are differences, but I think it is reasonable to conclude that in other respects they are the same. I think the "keep out" language is just a reflection of how the designer expected it to be used. The more general description says that the wall created is "impervious to the attack forms mentioned." "Impervious" is not usually used to describe something that passes an effect one way but not the other. The reference to spells not being able to be cast in and out of the cube refers to times when the cube is activated with faces 1-3 pressed. Most spells can then pass through the cube fine, but those particular ones cannot.
groveborn 04-16-08, 11:21 PM	Seems to me that when an item references a spell, it usually means that the item duplicates the spell with exceptions to follow. Obviously, the selectivity and the sensitivity to particular spells are differences, but I think it is reasonable to conclude that in other respects they are the same. I think the "keep out" language is just a reflection of how the designer expected it to be used. The more general description says that the wall created is "impervious to the attack forms mentioned." "Impervious" is not usually used to describe something that passes an effect one way but not the other. The reference to spells not being able to be cast in and out of the cube refers to times when the cube is activated with faces 1-3 pressed. Most spells can then pass through the cube fine, but those particular ones cannot. Since the spell referenced can't do anything that the cube of force can do (create a cube for instance), aside from blocking things, I'd say that your argument doesn't hold water. The spell is a reference only as the closest similar effect. The cube of force doesn't block out going attacks, passages, or anything else. The wall of force reference does not indicate that it creates a wall of force, merely an effect like unto it.
Mahali Audran 04-17-08, 01:40 AM	You cannot freely attack or cast spells out of a Cube of Force either. Yes, it creats a special Wall of Force. What's special about it? It's 10 feet on a side around her person. moves with the character and is impervious to the attack forms mentioned. It's mobile. Attacks that do more than 30 pts of damage and certain spells cast the special wall drain charges. Can you really think it was designed to give a character an addition 360+ hitpoints by being invulnerable at the cost of limited movement?
jaelis 04-17-08, 03:37 AM	Since the spell referenced can't do anything that the cube of force can do (create a cube for instance), aside from blocking things, I'd say that your argument doesn't hold water. The spell is a reference only as the closest similar effect. The cube of force doesn't block out going attacks, passages, or anything else. The wall of force reference does not indicate that it creates a wall of force, merely an effect like unto it. Yes. And what would be the point of saying the effect was "like unto" a wall of force, if we are not supposed to conclude that the effect is, in some respects, like a wall of force? In what ways is it like a wall of force? In all the ways that aren't specifically mentioned as being different. If I said that a kestrel is like an eagle but smaller and with different coloring, then it would be entirely reasonable to conclude that the kestrel is a bird of prey. If you think the issue is the "keep out" language, then that is a different objection. I don't find that language to be significant, but if you do, then of course that would be a specified difference from wall of force.
groveborn 04-17-08, 04:06 AM	Yes. And what would be the point of saying the effect was "like unto" a wall of force, if we are not supposed to conclude that the effect is, in some respects, like a wall of force? In what ways is it like a wall of force? In all the ways that aren't specifically mentioned as being different. If I said that a kestrel is like an eagle but smaller and with different coloring, then it would be entirely reasonable to conclude that the kestrel is a bird of prey. If you think the issue is the "keep out" language, then that is a different objection. I don't find that language to be significant, but if you do, then of course that would be a specified difference from wall of force. Well put, and indeed my issue is the language. Said language is significant. "Special Wall of Force" isn't as important to me, it only tells me what it may look like. Disintegrate destroys a wall of force, but merely deals damage to the cube of force's effect. I'd say it's not much like a wall of force at all.
narack 04-17-08, 07:34 AM	Im pretty sure you can select on the cube to either Denied everything that comes in or come out at your choice. or that Otilyuk sphere