Custom Item Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Custom Item Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Xaktsaroth
07-15-06, 01:08 PM Ok, I know to make a item that gives a continous spell effect costs: Base spell level x CL x 2000 (plus, an extra multipler based on the normal duration of the spell, but I'll leave that out for now).

The DMG also states that any item that does not occupy a body slot costs x2.

The DMG also states, in the sidebar of page 282, that items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up a body slot costs as follows:

HIC = Highest Spell Cost:

HIC + 75% of NHIC + (50% of 3rd HIC) repeat for remaining spells.

So, let's say I want to put 4 buffs on a ioun stone.

What the hell would it cost me? All these multiplers and what appears to be conflicting answers has me confused. 0_o.
Leilond
07-15-06, 01:15 PM First of all I always suggest to not use that way of creating items because it is very broken
The better way is to look for something similar that does exist and change it a bit
If you really want to use that table make an example and we can calculate the cost together
Xaktsaroth
07-15-06, 02:16 PM First of all I always suggest to not use that way of creating items because it is very broken
The better way is to look for something similar that does exist and change it a bit
If you really want to use that table make an example and we can calculate the cost together

What buffs are used are unimportant right now, I'd just like some insight into the process so when it comes time to make an item, I know the formula. :)

I'd rather avoid just converting items that already exist, based on the simple fact that eventually, I'll hit something I can't find an item for, then, I'm screwed.

Any help would be good. :)

Edit: Going out of town for few days, any help would be wonderful. I'll look over the thread when I get back. :)
petpetshoy
07-17-06, 02:11 AM it only costs x2 if it normally would take up a body slot ioun stones dont so u dont have to, and secondly you cant put multiple buffs on a stone the only buffs are determind by its shape and colour
Novacat
07-17-06, 09:51 AM it only costs x2 if it normally would take up a body slot ioun stones dont so u dont have to, and secondly you cant put multiple buffs on a stone the only buffs are determind by its shape and colour
You're making stuff up, Petpetshoy. The x2 cost is already incorporated into the ioun stone's cost. Second, nothing anywhere says that you can't have an ioun stone with multiple effects.
zoombie_444
07-17-06, 10:24 AM Im also having the same problem if you want Leilond use the item I want to make as an example.

Id like a small sac that 1/day produces 2d4 fresh goodberry's.

So the spell Goodberry's is involved and what Create food and water? seems a litle over kill
create food and water suply's an entire meal for 8 people as well as fresh water. I just want the berry's, 8 of them max...
RavenDrake
07-17-06, 10:44 AM Ok, I know to make a item that gives a continous spell effect costs: Base spell level x CL x 2000 (plus, an extra multipler based on the normal duration of the spell, but I'll leave that out for now).

That is the last resort pricing. Ideally your costs should be based on similar items, if they exist. If they don't exist in any form in an official product, you may consider that as a hint that perhaps they are too difficult to balance fairly. Also remember that many effects have thier own recomended formula: a +4 Armour bonus to AC is prices as is, not as a continuous Mage Armour Spell.

The DMG also states that any item that does not occupy a body slot costs x2.

The DMG also states, in the sidebar of page 282, that items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up a body slot costs as follows:

HIC = Highest Spell Cost:

HIC + 75% of NHIC + (50% of 3rd HIC) repeat for remaining spells.

So, let's say I want to put 4 buffs on a ioun stone.

What the hell would it cost me? All these multiplers and what appears to be conflicting answers has me confused. 0_o.

It's actually simple, really. IF you use four of the Spell Level x CL x 2K, they're added follows.

Highest cost (Whichever spell level x CL produces teh highest tottal)

75% of the Next Highest price (Ie, which ever of the Spell Level x CL produces the second highest total(even if that's a tie for first) multiplied by .75)

Then Multiply any remaining spell effects by .5

Add all of those totals together and, if the item is slotless, multiplly that final value by 2.

What buffs are used are unimportant right now, I'd just like some insight into the process so when it comes time to make an item, I know the formula.

That is telling right there. The "buffs"(if you insist on using MMO terminology) are very important. I'm sure we'd all love to have an Ioun Stone That provides a continous True Strike, Mage Armour, Shield, and Wraith Strike
for 11,000g, but it ain't never gonna happen. And if that was your idea(or something similar, or involving any of those spells for that price) then we're all pretty much going to scold you gently and cover the many and numerous reasons why we don't use the formula for many items.
risner
07-18-06, 05:05 AM continous spell effect costs: Base spell level x CL x 2000

body slot costs x2.

multiple similar abilities that don't take up a body slot

So, let's say I want to put 4 buffs on a ioun stone.

1) Incorrect. Continuous items do not cost SL x CL x 2000 x duration.
They can cost that if no other higher priority formula exists.

2) Yes Slotless is 2x.

3) Unless you wanted to make the ioun stone charged and assign charge costs to the abilities, they are not multiple similar. Look for multiple different. A better way would be charged (multiple similar) or uncharged (multiple different.)
risner
07-18-06, 05:07 AM What buffs are used are unimportant right now, I'd just like some insight into the process so when it comes time to make an item, I know the formula. :)

There is the problem. What formula used to price the item DEPENDS on the buffs. So to answer your question, there is not cookie cutter formula and if you do find one, it will be a broken formula.
risner
07-18-06, 05:24 AM Id like a small sac that 1/day produces 2d4 fresh goodberry's.

So the spell Goodberry's is involved and what Create food and water? seems a litle over kill
create food and water suply's an entire meal for 8 people as well as fresh water. I just want the berry's, 8 of them max...

This is difficult because of the healing the berries provide. This is an item that will provide 2d4 (2 to 8) points of healing per day to anyone (no restriction on who must wear the item and that it can only heal damage done while being worn), so it is less healing but more powerful than the ioun stone healing and the ring of regeneration.

I would say take the price of the ioun stone (24 healing per day) and scale it to 8/day (1 cast of Goodberry) for 6,667 gp.

Trade the lost points (if you roll two 1's for instance) for the "usable on anyone" ability seems fair.

The "normal meal" part also needs to be addressed. Murlynd’s Spoon (DMG p262) provides 4 meals a day for 5,400 gp. The average of 2d4 is 5, so scale the spoon up from 4 to 5 (5,400*5/4 = 6,750 gp)

Now add them using the correct formula:
Pick the food as primary (because it costs more) and the healing as the additional:
6,750 + 1.5 * 6,667 = 16,750.5 gp

Now make it slotless:
33,501 gp

round to a pretty 34,000 gp (or maybe 13,000 gp)
Merestil Haye
07-18-06, 06:58 AM It's actually simple, really. IF you use four of the Spell Level x CL x 2K, they're added follows.

Highest cost (Whichever spell level x CL produces teh highest tottal)

75% of the Next Highest price (Ie, which ever of the Spell Level x CL produces the second highest total(even if that's a tie for first) multiplied by .75)

Then Multiply any remaining spell effects by .5Disagree.

If you have an item with multiple powers, unless the powers are clearly related by a theme, you do not use this pricing formula. You use the Multiple Different Powers pricing formula, which is the default.

1st power at listed cost. All subsequent powers at +50% listed cost.

For a slotless item, do all these calculations then double the final price.

(This does not address the issue of what the price of the powers should be, which needs to be based on the power sought.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xaktsaroth 07-15-06, 01:08 PM	Ok, I know to make a item that gives a continous spell effect costs: Base spell level x CL x 2000 (plus, an extra multipler based on the normal duration of the spell, but I'll leave that out for now). The DMG also states that any item that does not occupy a body slot costs x2. The DMG also states, in the sidebar of page 282, that items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up a body slot costs as follows: HIC = Highest Spell Cost: HIC + 75% of NHIC + (50% of 3rd HIC) repeat for remaining spells. So, let's say I want to put 4 buffs on a ioun stone. What the hell would it cost me? All these multiplers and what appears to be conflicting answers has me confused. 0_o.
Leilond 07-15-06, 01:15 PM	First of all I always suggest to not use that way of creating items because it is very broken The better way is to look for something similar that does exist and change it a bit If you really want to use that table make an example and we can calculate the cost together
Xaktsaroth 07-15-06, 02:16 PM	First of all I always suggest to not use that way of creating items because it is very broken The better way is to look for something similar that does exist and change it a bit If you really want to use that table make an example and we can calculate the cost together What buffs are used are unimportant right now, I'd just like some insight into the process so when it comes time to make an item, I know the formula. :) I'd rather avoid just converting items that already exist, based on the simple fact that eventually, I'll hit something I can't find an item for, then, I'm screwed. Any help would be good. :) Edit: Going out of town for few days, any help would be wonderful. I'll look over the thread when I get back. :)
petpetshoy 07-17-06, 02:11 AM	it only costs x2 if it normally would take up a body slot ioun stones dont so u dont have to, and secondly you cant put multiple buffs on a stone the only buffs are determind by its shape and colour
Novacat 07-17-06, 09:51 AM	it only costs x2 if it normally would take up a body slot ioun stones dont so u dont have to, and secondly you cant put multiple buffs on a stone the only buffs are determind by its shape and colour You're making stuff up, Petpetshoy. The x2 cost is already incorporated into the ioun stone's cost. Second, nothing anywhere says that you can't have an ioun stone with multiple effects.
zoombie_444 07-17-06, 10:24 AM	Im also having the same problem if you want Leilond use the item I want to make as an example. Id like a small sac that 1/day produces 2d4 fresh goodberry's. So the spell Goodberry's is involved and what Create food and water? seems a litle over kill create food and water suply's an entire meal for 8 people as well as fresh water. I just want the berry's, 8 of them max...
RavenDrake 07-17-06, 10:44 AM	Ok, I know to make a item that gives a continous spell effect costs: Base spell level x CL x 2000 (plus, an extra multipler based on the normal duration of the spell, but I'll leave that out for now). That is the last resort pricing. Ideally your costs should be based on similar items, if they exist. If they don't exist in any form in an official product, you may consider that as a hint that perhaps they are too difficult to balance fairly. Also remember that many effects have thier own recomended formula: a +4 Armour bonus to AC is prices as is, not as a continuous Mage Armour Spell. The DMG also states that any item that does not occupy a body slot costs x2. The DMG also states, in the sidebar of page 282, that items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up a body slot costs as follows: HIC = Highest Spell Cost: HIC + 75% of NHIC + (50% of 3rd HIC) repeat for remaining spells. So, let's say I want to put 4 buffs on a ioun stone. What the hell would it cost me? All these multiplers and what appears to be conflicting answers has me confused. 0_o. It's actually simple, really. IF you use four of the Spell Level x CL x 2K, they're added follows. Highest cost (Whichever spell level x CL produces teh highest tottal) 75% of the Next Highest price (Ie, which ever of the Spell Level x CL produces the second highest total(even if that's a tie for first) multiplied by .75) Then Multiply any remaining spell effects by .5 Add all of those totals together and, if the item is slotless, multiplly that final value by 2. What buffs are used are unimportant right now, I'd just like some insight into the process so when it comes time to make an item, I know the formula. That is telling right there. The "buffs"(if you insist on using MMO terminology) are very important. I'm sure we'd all love to have an Ioun Stone That provides a continous True Strike, Mage Armour, Shield, and Wraith Strike for 11,000g, but it ain't never gonna happen. And if that was your idea(or something similar, or involving any of those spells for that price) then we're all pretty much going to scold you gently and cover the many and numerous reasons why we don't use the formula for many items.
risner 07-18-06, 05:05 AM	continous spell effect costs: Base spell level x CL x 2000 body slot costs x2. multiple similar abilities that don't take up a body slot So, let's say I want to put 4 buffs on a ioun stone. 1) Incorrect. Continuous items do not cost SL x CL x 2000 x duration. They can cost that if no other higher priority formula exists. 2) Yes Slotless is 2x. 3) Unless you wanted to make the ioun stone charged and assign charge costs to the abilities, they are not multiple similar. Look for multiple different. A better way would be charged (multiple similar) or uncharged (multiple different.)
risner 07-18-06, 05:07 AM	What buffs are used are unimportant right now, I'd just like some insight into the process so when it comes time to make an item, I know the formula. :) There is the problem. What formula used to price the item DEPENDS on the buffs. So to answer your question, there is not cookie cutter formula and if you do find one, it will be a broken formula.
risner 07-18-06, 05:24 AM	Id like a small sac that 1/day produces 2d4 fresh goodberry's. So the spell Goodberry's is involved and what Create food and water? seems a litle over kill create food and water suply's an entire meal for 8 people as well as fresh water. I just want the berry's, 8 of them max... This is difficult because of the healing the berries provide. This is an item that will provide 2d4 (2 to 8) points of healing per day to anyone (no restriction on who must wear the item and that it can only heal damage done while being worn), so it is less healing but more powerful than the ioun stone healing and the ring of regeneration. I would say take the price of the ioun stone (24 healing per day) and scale it to 8/day (1 cast of Goodberry) for 6,667 gp. Trade the lost points (if you roll two 1's for instance) for the "usable on anyone" ability seems fair. The "normal meal" part also needs to be addressed. Murlynd’s Spoon (DMG p262) provides 4 meals a day for 5,400 gp. The average of 2d4 is 5, so scale the spoon up from 4 to 5 (5,4005/4 = 6,750 gp) Now add them using the correct formula: Pick the food as primary (because it costs more) and the healing as the additional: 6,750 + 1.5 6,667 = 16,750.5 gp Now make it slotless: 33,501 gp round to a pretty 34,000 gp (or maybe 13,000 gp)
Merestil Haye 07-18-06, 06:58 AM	It's actually simple, really. IF you use four of the Spell Level x CL x 2K, they're added follows. Highest cost (Whichever spell level x CL produces teh highest tottal) 75% of the Next Highest price (Ie, which ever of the Spell Level x CL produces the second highest total(even if that's a tie for first) multiplied by .75) Then Multiply any remaining spell effects by .5Disagree. If you have an item with multiple powers, unless the powers are clearly related by a theme, you do not use this pricing formula. You use the Multiple Different Powers pricing formula, which is the default. 1st power at listed cost. All subsequent powers at +50% listed cost. For a slotless item, do all these calculations then double the final price. (This does not address the issue of what the price of the powers should be, which needs to be based on the power sought.)