CW new Weapon Qualities [Archive] - Wizards Community

CW new Weapon Qualities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Karalyn the Sellsword
09-19-05, 07:35 AM I was just looking through the Complete Warriors new weapon properties, and it gave me some ideas. Thing is, I'm not sure how they'd work.

Forgive me if I get some names wrong, I don't have the CW infront of me

It's the Knockback and Piercing enchantments in particular.
Is there an order to how they work.

Lets say I have a Knockback and Piercing Bow. The Knock Back pushes people back, the Piercing goes through targets and hits people behind them.

Would the Knockback property move a person back as far as it can, and then Piercethrough? Would it then be able to Pierce through again and therefore Bullrush again?
What if there were people behind the Bullrushed, would it push them back if it hit them as well thanks to the Pierce through catagory.

Can the Pierce through be used on weapons if you have the Ranged Disarm feat?

How does Knockback work if you use one of the many homing abilities, I.e. an Arcane Archers Guided arrow or a Blook Seeking Arrow?

The last problem is with the Explosive enchantment. If I hit people with a WWA with an Explosive Reach weapon, would closely bunched targets take the brunt of multiple hits?
NeueRegel
09-19-05, 07:59 AM Herein lies the irony: You answered your own questions with your sig line.

Play core.
Karalyn the Sellsword
09-19-05, 12:35 PM Who said it was broke? The most I'm going to bullrush & pierce is a bunch of weak enemies, at most it's going to a dumb wizard.
NeueRegel
09-19-05, 12:43 PM Who said it was broke? The most I'm going to bullrush & pierce is a bunch of weak enemies, at most it's going to a dumb wizard.
It's "broke" because it is not core; It (they) was (were) written by authors *not the original designers*, without enough thought as to how things would affect other things. Thus, the problems arise like yours.

You'll notice that there is very little internal problems with the core game as written, aside from wishful thinking by munchkins. The problems arise after the fact, with the splatbooks, which WotC admittedly needs to support the industry, and our free boards here, etc.
Surreal
09-19-05, 01:34 PM The simplest thing to do would be to simply not allow both on the same weapon. It's easy to justify from a physics point of view. If you really want both to stack, then just apply the piercing effect after the knockback.

If an opponent gets bullrushed into another, then they stop. There's another feat that lets you trip if that happens, but I think it only applies to melee weapons. Either that or houserule what happens if it comes up often enough.

>>Can the Pierce through be used on weapons if you have the Ranged Disarm feat?

I would say no. Ranger sunder maybe, but only if it manages to destroy the weapon.

>>How does Knockback work if you use one of the many homing abilities, I.e. an Arcane Archers Guided arrow or a Blook Seeking Arrow?

It homes in and hits, triggering the bullrush. Nothing special.

>>The last problem is with the Explosive enchantment. If I hit people with a WWA with an Explosive Reach weapon, would closely bunched targets take the brunt of multiple hits?

Yes, the explosions trigger on each enemy, causing damage to those around them.
Vaelan
09-19-05, 04:01 PM Karalyn the Sellsword, since this is in no way addressed by the rules, your DM will have to make a ruling.

It's "broke" because it is not core
An interesting, if tired, statement, but you really don't support it very well.

It (they) was (were) written by authors *not the original designers*
I see some of the original designers in Complete Warrior's credits, including management staff. Perhaps you should do your homework, by which I mean bother to look at and understand the credits.

You'll notice that there is very little internal problems with the core game as written, aside from wishful thinking by munchkins.
Such a statement is false. There are several thousand posts on these forums that refute it well enough.

Also, "wishful thinking by munchkins" is a vague term that you could use in any way to justify your statement.

Your entire post is misinformation and opinion with no objective meaning beyond "I don't like optional supplements".
NeueRegel
09-19-05, 05:50 PM Your entire post is misinformation and opinion with no objective meaning beyond "I don't like optional supplements".
Exactly. :)

And if I print it enough, the masses will listen.
ClementWillowbreaker
09-19-05, 06:32 PM Or we can just learn to tune you out as irrelevant to the conversation...

You would treat the properties independently. So after Piercing, it will Knockback anything it hits, for the same reason a Flaming arrow does fire damage to every thing it hits with Piercing- its magic!

The only interesting conflict is why your Knockback is so strong, it pushes one target behind the other, negating Piercing's would-be attack roll. This is kinda annoying, but there is no rule conflict there. Or you could take Knockback to mean the projectile itself doesn't drag the target with it, but instead flings it back as it goes, in which case it would attack everyone, potentially scrambling up the enemy formation quite a bit. I prefer the second one, actually. One enchantment doesn't prevent the use of another, which is as it should be.
Karalyn the Sellsword
09-20-05, 07:28 AM Well it's a matter of order of occurance, if it comes out after the bullrush then where they end up (like off a cliff then it would effect where pierce through came out), then if I Ranged Disarm a Sword, and Knockback sends it flying, it won't carry on and hit other people in the line. If it Pierces first then it must Bullrush at the same time and resolve that attempt, so if I ranged Disarmed a sword, the arrow would pierce through and hit the wielder, whilst the sword was sent flying.

Oh and I assume you can't Bullrush incoporeal creatures even if you have a Ghost Touch Knock BackBow?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Karalyn the Sellsword 09-19-05, 07:35 AM	I was just looking through the Complete Warriors new weapon properties, and it gave me some ideas. Thing is, I'm not sure how they'd work. Forgive me if I get some names wrong, I don't have the CW infront of me It's the Knockback and Piercing enchantments in particular. Is there an order to how they work. Lets say I have a Knockback and Piercing Bow. The Knock Back pushes people back, the Piercing goes through targets and hits people behind them. Would the Knockback property move a person back as far as it can, and then Piercethrough? Would it then be able to Pierce through again and therefore Bullrush again? What if there were people behind the Bullrushed, would it push them back if it hit them as well thanks to the Pierce through catagory. Can the Pierce through be used on weapons if you have the Ranged Disarm feat? How does Knockback work if you use one of the many homing abilities, I.e. an Arcane Archers Guided arrow or a Blook Seeking Arrow? The last problem is with the Explosive enchantment. If I hit people with a WWA with an Explosive Reach weapon, would closely bunched targets take the brunt of multiple hits?
NeueRegel 09-19-05, 07:59 AM	Herein lies the irony: You answered your own questions with your sig line. Play core.
Karalyn the Sellsword 09-19-05, 12:35 PM	Who said it was broke? The most I'm going to bullrush & pierce is a bunch of weak enemies, at most it's going to a dumb wizard.
NeueRegel 09-19-05, 12:43 PM	Who said it was broke? The most I'm going to bullrush & pierce is a bunch of weak enemies, at most it's going to a dumb wizard. It's "broke" because it is not core; It (they) was (were) written by authors not the original designers, without enough thought as to how things would affect other things. Thus, the problems arise like yours. You'll notice that there is very little internal problems with the core game as written, aside from wishful thinking by munchkins. The problems arise after the fact, with the splatbooks, which WotC admittedly needs to support the industry, and our free boards here, etc.
Surreal 09-19-05, 01:34 PM	The simplest thing to do would be to simply not allow both on the same weapon. It's easy to justify from a physics point of view. If you really want both to stack, then just apply the piercing effect after the knockback. If an opponent gets bullrushed into another, then they stop. There's another feat that lets you trip if that happens, but I think it only applies to melee weapons. Either that or houserule what happens if it comes up often enough. >>Can the Pierce through be used on weapons if you have the Ranged Disarm feat? I would say no. Ranger sunder maybe, but only if it manages to destroy the weapon. >>How does Knockback work if you use one of the many homing abilities, I.e. an Arcane Archers Guided arrow or a Blook Seeking Arrow? It homes in and hits, triggering the bullrush. Nothing special. >>The last problem is with the Explosive enchantment. If I hit people with a WWA with an Explosive Reach weapon, would closely bunched targets take the brunt of multiple hits? Yes, the explosions trigger on each enemy, causing damage to those around them.
Vaelan 09-19-05, 04:01 PM	Karalyn the Sellsword, since this is in no way addressed by the rules, your DM will have to make a ruling. It's "broke" because it is not core An interesting, if tired, statement, but you really don't support it very well. It (they) was (were) written by authors not the original designers I see some of the original designers in Complete Warrior's credits, including management staff. Perhaps you should do your homework, by which I mean bother to look at and understand the credits. You'll notice that there is very little internal problems with the core game as written, aside from wishful thinking by munchkins. Such a statement is false. There are several thousand posts on these forums that refute it well enough. Also, "wishful thinking by munchkins" is a vague term that you could use in any way to justify your statement. Your entire post is misinformation and opinion with no objective meaning beyond "I don't like optional supplements".
NeueRegel 09-19-05, 05:50 PM	Your entire post is misinformation and opinion with no objective meaning beyond "I don't like optional supplements". Exactly. :) And if I print it enough, the masses will listen.
ClementWillowbreaker 09-19-05, 06:32 PM	Or we can just learn to tune you out as irrelevant to the conversation... You would treat the properties independently. So after Piercing, it will Knockback anything it hits, for the same reason a Flaming arrow does fire damage to every thing it hits with Piercing- its magic! The only interesting conflict is why your Knockback is so strong, it pushes one target behind the other, negating Piercing's would-be attack roll. This is kinda annoying, but there is no rule conflict there. Or you could take Knockback to mean the projectile itself doesn't drag the target with it, but instead flings it back as it goes, in which case it would attack everyone, potentially scrambling up the enemy formation quite a bit. I prefer the second one, actually. One enchantment doesn't prevent the use of another, which is as it should be.
Karalyn the Sellsword 09-20-05, 07:28 AM	Well it's a matter of order of occurance, if it comes out after the bullrush then where they end up (like off a cliff then it would effect where pierce through came out), then if I Ranged Disarm a Sword, and Knockback sends it flying, it won't carry on and hit other people in the line. If it Pierces first then it must Bullrush at the same time and resolve that attempt, so if I ranged Disarmed a sword, the arrow would pierce through and hit the wielder, whilst the sword was sent flying. Oh and I assume you can't Bullrush incoporeal creatures even if you have a Ghost Touch Knock BackBow?