Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Krisper 03-06-07, 02:34 PM	Where is there a list of what trumps what as far as adamantine, mithril,silver, etc. ? Or can you tell me? Also a magic +1 sword doesnt bypass DR bludgeoning 5 right? Is there a way to find some vast D.R. thread? --Krisper
tarkin 03-06-07, 02:45 PM	In 3.0, it was: Anything except magic +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 or higher. ----------------------- In 3.5 it is: Nothing trumps anything. If they have DR/Silver, you MUST have silver. The sole exception is if an item specifically states "This counts as Silver for DR purposes" Also note, that if you have Power Attack and a two handed weapon, you can easily convert DR into a rather low AC bonus. +10 DR/Silver is about the same as +5 AC if you power Attack -5 to hit, +10 to damage.
RavenDrake 03-06-07, 03:00 PM	Damage reduction is pretty clearly spelled out in the SRD/Dungeon Master's Guide under Special Abilities, and clarifed in the FAQ, but here's a quick primer: Nothing "trumps" anything in 3.5 now. In order to overcome damage reduction you must have an attack which matches the damage reduction. Thus DR/Slashing can only be overcome by a slashing weapon, DR/Piercing only by piercing attacks, etc. Remeber that a weapon which does multiple damage types (such as morningstar which does bludgeoning and pericing) is treated as being whichever type is more effective for overcoming the damage reduction of a creauture(and thus, the abovementioned morningstar would overcome DR/bludgeoning as as bludgeoning weapon, and could overcome DR/Piercing as a piercing weapon). DR/Silver or DR/Cold Iron can only be overcome by alchemical silver or cold iron, respecitvely, Any other special material Damage Reduction follows suit, only items made of that material can overcome thier DR. DR/magic can only be overcome by a weapon with a +1 of greater magical enhancement bonus. This bonus can be built into the weapon (such as a +2 longsword) or can come from spells and effects (such as casting Greater Magic Fang on the Monk). The natural weapons of creatures with DR/magic naturally overcome DR/magic as though they were magical(though this only applies to creatures with a racial damage reduction, not to creatures who gain damage reduction through spells or magial effects). A related damage reduction feature is DR/Epic which requires a weapon with a +6 or greater magical enhancement bonus, but are(obviously) almost universally religated to Epic level encounters. DR/Alignment(chaos, law, Evil, good) can only be overcome by weapons who have been imbued with the proper alignment (such as Holy or Axiomatic weapons) or through the natural weapons of creatures with the coresponding subtype. Thus demons and devils, for example(who all have the Evil subtype) can overcome DR/Evil with thier natural weapons. And, lastly, DR/- cannot be overcome by any means. If the damage reduction description includes two or more things seperated by an OR, then either of the two types will penetrate it (for example, something DR/Slashing OR piercing could be overcome by a slashing weapon or by a piercing weapon, leaving it only resistant to bludgeoning). If the damage reduction description includes two or more things seperated by an AND, then the attack MUST fulfill both qualities to overcome it's DR. For example a creature with DR/Magic AND Cold Iron would resist damage from any attack that was not made with a cold iron weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus.
ShinAkuma2 03-06-07, 03:46 PM	And just because it's important: Spells are never subject to DR unless the spell description specifically says otherwise. Also, mundane elemental damage (ie being set on fire, acid flasks, etc) is not subject to DR.
WinterPsionic 03-06-07, 05:08 PM	And just because it's important: Spells are never subject to DR unless the spell description specifically says otherwise. Also, mundane elemental damage (ie being set on fire, acid flasks, etc) is not subject to DR. It could also simply be said that any Non-"Physical" based damage is not counted against DR, for example a +5 Frost Burst GreatAxe against a Creature with DR 10/- would still take the cold damage. And while I'm sure you already know this DR for elemental damage is refered to as "resistance".... And so ends today's lesson on damage absorbing abilties...for the most part.
mearrin69 03-06-07, 06:33 PM	So, let's say you have a slashing weapon that does d6 but with an additional d6 of fire damage. Do you apply the total amount of damage (let's say you rolled two 3s for 6 damage total) against DR (so against DR 5/bludgeoning you would deal 1 point of damage) or just the slashing part and then apply the fire separately (taking into account any fire resistance)? Hopefully that makes sense. M
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 06:38 PM	if you hit a creature with DR 5/bludgeoning with a +1 flaming rapier (assuming that you have no strength bonus, so the damage is 1d6+1 peircing plus 1d6 fire) you would roll 1d6+1 and subtract 5 (which could be 0) and then roll 1d6 for the fire damage which would by-pass the DR.
WinterPsionic 03-06-07, 06:40 PM	So, let's say you have a slashing weapon that does d6 but with an additional d6 of fire damage. Do you apply the total amount of damage (let's say you rolled two 3s for 6 damage total) against DR (so against DR 5/bludgeoning you would deal 1 point of damage) or just the slashing part and then apply the fire separately (taking into account any fire resistance)? Hopefully that makes sense. M ....did my post get overlooked, the fire damage is NOT counted against the DR so a creature with Fire Res 0 would take 3, a creature vulnerable to fire would take 4, etc.
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 06:42 PM	....did my post get overlooked, the fire damage is NOT counted against the DR so a creature with Fire Res 0 would take 5, a creature vulnerable to fire would take 7, etc. why would it take 5 fire damage when the original query postulated that a 3 (3 physical plus 3 fire) was rolled on both dice?
WinterPsionic 03-06-07, 06:44 PM	why would it take 5 fire damage when the original query postulated that a 3 (2 physical plus 3 fire) was rolled on both dice? Sorry fixed the post, had the number 5 on the brain, my bad :pbbbtt:
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 06:47 PM	quite alright, I even saw a similar typo in my post (now fixed) :embarrass
mearrin69 03-06-07, 07:03 PM	....did my post get overlooked, the fire damage is NOT counted against the DR so a creature with Fire Res 0 would take 3, a creature vulnerable to fire would take 4, etc. No, I saw your post. Was just a bit confused. So energy damage should be separated and applied against energy resistances and other damage should be separated and applied against DR. Along those lines. Let's say something has DR 10/magic and silver and cold resistance 10. The spell ice storm does bludgeoning and cold damage, right? So, if you rolled 9 on physical damage and 9 on cold damage nothing gets through? Even though the total of 18 is higher than DR. OR, does it all apply because it's a spell (I don't think so in this case). Heh, sorry to be dense. M
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 07:11 PM	No, I saw your post. Was just a bit confused. So energy damage should be separated and applied against energy resistances and other damage should be separated and applied against DR. Along those lines. Let's say something has DR 10/magic and silver and cold resistance 10. The spell ice storm does bludgeoning and cold damage, right? So, if you rolled 9 on physical damage and 9 on cold damage nothing gets through? Even though the total of 18 is higher than DR. OR, does it all apply because it's a spell (I don't think so in this case). Heh, sorry to be dense. M as Shin said above And just because it's important: Spells are never subject to DR unless the spell description specifically says otherwise. since Ice Storm is a spell, even though it deals "bludgeoning" damage, DR doesn't apply to it at all, in any way. (in order for it to do so, the ice storm spell would have to include a statement to the effect of "damage reduction applies to the bludgeoning portion of this spells damage", it does not say anything of the sort though). in the case you illustrated above with DR 10/silver and magic, and cold resistance 10, if you rolled 9 cold damage and 9 bludgeoning damage, the creature would take all of the bludgeoning damage, and none of the cold damage, for 9 points total.
mearrin69 03-06-07, 07:18 PM	Fair enough. Why do you suppose, though, that they point out it's bludgeoning damage if it doesn't matter what type of damage it is for DR purposes? Guess that's why I'm confused about it - I assumed they were pointing it out for a reason. M
WinterPsionic 03-06-07, 07:19 PM	While not necessarily important to this thread, a house rule I've seen used in every campaign I've been in for 3.5 (around 12 now) the rule was spells that specify a damage type do damage as the type, and as such DR applies. I had originally thought RAW stated this however I never pursued it greatly enough to verify. Just thought I'd point it out.
mearrin69 03-06-07, 07:31 PM	While not necessarily important to this thread, a house rule I've seen used in every campaign I've been in for 3.5 (around 12 now) the rule was spells that specify a damage type do damage as the type, and as such DR applies. Seems relevant to me - and it makes sense. It seems that "Spells are never subject to DR unless the spell description specifically says otherwise. " is fulfilled by specifying that the spell deals bludgeoning damage, no? M
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 07:31 PM	Why do you suppose, though, that they point out it's bludgeoning damage if it doesn't matter what type of damage it is for DR purposes? to deferientiate it from the cold damage. While not necessarily important to this thread, a house rule I've seen used in every campaign I've been in for 3.5 (around 12 now) the rule was spells that specify a damage type do damage as the type, and as such DR applies.that is a house rule that I have seen mentioned on the boards but never seen in actual use... personal I think it is stupid. It seems that "Spells are never subject to DR unless the spell description specifically says otherwise. " is fulfilled by specifying that the spell deals bludgeoning damage, no? No. from the FAQ How do spells like Evard’s black tentacles and ice storm affect a creature with damage reduction overcome by magic and bludgeoning? Do the tentacles and hailstones deal magical bludgeoning damage? Any damage dealt by a spell or other magical effect is unaffected by damage reduction. from the SRD: Damage Reduction (Ex or Su): A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below. The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability. Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage. Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold-forged iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus. Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature. When a damage reduction entry has a dash (–) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction. A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon. A weapon of either type overcomes this damage reduction. A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction. A weapon must be both types to overcome this damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction. for an example of a spell which does specifically adress the issue, look at splinterbolt or ring of blades in the Spell Compendium.
RavenDrake 03-06-07, 07:37 PM	Along those lines. Let's say something has DR 10/magic and silver and cold resistance 10. The spell ice storm does bludgeoning and cold damage, right? So, if you rolled 9 on physical damage and 9 on cold damage nothing gets through? Even though the total of 18 is higher than DR. OR, does it all apply because it's a spell (I don't think so in this case). Heh, sorry to be dense. M It's ok, it can be alot to absorb all at once, especially if you're playing in an all-new group. In the case of Ice Storm there might be some disention, but first things first: The Cold and Bludgeoning damage are applied seperatly. So you apply damage from cold against the Cold Resistance only. (if it's 9 in the example you gave, then it would take no damage from the cold). As for the bludgeoning damage, personally, I've always ruled that spells which deal physical damage (slashing, piercing, or bludgeoning) apply that damage aqainst damage reduction. Many DM's say that any spell damage(regardless of type) automatically overcomes DR because it's all 'magical damage'. At any rate, if you (or your DM) choose to have bludgeoning damage from a spell apply against DR then you apply it as normal(it has only the bludgeoning type, and therefor will not overcome DR/Magic and Silver) and will be negated. If in your game it's NOT subjected to Damage Reduction, then the damage will be applied as normal and the creature will take the 9 points of bludgeoning damage.
mearrin69 03-06-07, 07:38 PM	that is a house rule that I have seen mentioned on the boards but never seen in actual use... personal I think it is stupid. Well, thanks for weighing in. [edit]Thanks RavenDrake and WinterPsionic. Stupid though it may be - and apparently against the RAW, SRD and FAQs - I think I prefer that way best as it makes the most sense to me.
WinterPsionic 03-06-07, 07:46 PM	...WOW thanks cwslyclgh, because of that excerpt I now know that my Soulknife's mind blade bypasses DR, being a supernatural ability and all...
cwslyclgh 03-06-07, 07:51 PM	well the mind balde description is messed up anyway... it says it is a light weapon (identical to a short sword) but that you can power attack with it normaly...okay... except you can't power attack with light weapon...:confused:
TheMagister 03-06-07, 10:55 PM	The thing that I hate is the way DR doesn't stack. I can understand some situations, but the Adamantine Breastplate-wearing 16th-level barbarian who has DR 4/- (inherent) and DR 2/- (breastplate) should (IMO) have DR 6/-. I mean, the armor takes some off of the blow, and the barbarian's personal toughness shrug's off the rest. Logic should have SOMETHING to do with DnD... TM
Nom 03-06-07, 11:24 PM	DR/Alignment(chaos, law, Evil, good) can only be overcome by weapons who have been imbued with the proper alignment (such as Holy or Axiomatic weapons) or through the natural weapons of creatures with the coresponding subtype. Thus demons and devils, for example(who all have the Evil subtype) can overcome DR/Evil with thier natural weapons.Alignment subtypes apply to manufactured weapons as well. DR/magic doesn't. Important difference. (The other important difference is that creatures with DR/magic treat natural weapons as magic, while creatures with an alignment subtype, not DR/alignment, treat their natural and manufactured weapons as that alignment)