Daern's Instant Tent/ Fortress [Archive] - Wizards Community

Daern's Instant Tent/ Fortress [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Chronus13
03-16-08, 07:17 AM My group wants my wizard to craft wondrous item a "Daern's Instant (whatever the equivalent of having a Leomund's Secure Shelter)". I can not figure out for the life of me how the item creation table applies to it since the Tent version Base Price is 9000 and the Fortress version Base Price is 55,000

Can someone please explain the formula to create such items to me because I really can't figure this out. :(
Kursk
03-16-08, 09:56 AM My group wants my wizard to craft wondrous item a "Daern's Instant (whatever the equivalent of having a Leomund's Secure Shelter)". I can not figure out for the life of me how the item creation table applies to it since the Tent version Base Price is 9000 and the Fortress version Base Price is 55,000

Can someone please explain the formula to create such items to me because I really can't figure this out. :(

There isn't a formula that applies to these items. They gave estimates. I've seen a couple of your posts in other threads. Please read and understand your Core books.
Chronus13
03-16-08, 03:47 PM Oh, thanks for nothing. I read the item creation tables and I tried to figure out how the premade items were made and I CAN'T figure it out which is the whole reason I posted my question in the first place. I generally only make items that are premade because various items don't make sense when the tables are used to figure out their creation.
Kursk
03-17-08, 10:00 AM Oh, thanks for nothing. I read the item creation tables and I tried to figure out how the premade items were made and I CAN'T figure it out which is the whole reason I posted my question in the first place. I generally only make items that are premade because various items don't make sense when the tables are used to figure out their creation.

Read my 1st sentence. :rolleye2:
mato_hibiki
03-17-08, 10:15 AM There isn't a formula that applies to these items. They gave estimates.

Bolded to prevent rage. ;)
Belkar
03-17-08, 01:55 PM Yeah, dude. Bottom line, it's a bad idea to create magical items not listed in the books. 3rd edition doesn't support magic item creation in a game balancing way, quite frankly. And considering that the DMG has hundreds of magic items, and the MIC has thousands of them, and each Complete XXXX book has dozens... you shouldn't really ever need to create anything. :confused:
Kursk
03-17-08, 02:13 PM Yeah, dude. Bottom line, it's a bad idea to create magical items not listed in the books.

Actually, for an experienced DM it is quite easy. The large amount of existing items gives you a lot to compare against, balance wise, when creating one.
WombleHunter
03-17-08, 02:20 PM So basically he wants to make a house that he can fold up and take away?

I would price it like this:

Secure Shelter is a 4th level spell. I presume he wants to be able to activate it via command word, and at minimum caster level, so the initial price is 4 x 7 x 1800gp, or 50400gp. We'll be generous and say that the 2hr/level duration is equivalent to a 24-hour duration, halving price, for 25200gp. Seems about right to me. There are other modifiers you could apply, but really the effect is pretty limited.

As an item with a market price of 25200gp, it would cost the wizard in question 12600gp in materials and 1008xp to craft, and would take 26 days to complete.

The magic item creation guidelines really are only guidelines, and you have to wing it a lot.

EDIT: Another way to price it could be to increase the caster level to 12 - guaranteeing a 24-hour duration (and continuing to apply the cost reduction) and then treat the item as though it could only be used 1/day: while you could get some use from being able to move house so quickly, really I imagine it's mostly a 1/day use thing anyway; or it might as well be. In this case, it would cost (4 x 12 x 1800) / 2 / 5 = 8640gp market price.
Belkar
03-17-08, 03:11 PM Actually, for an experienced DM it is quite easy. The large amount of existing items gives you a lot to compare against, balance wise, when creating one.

Well, yeah, it's easy to create something by simply modeling it after something existing. But no "tables" exist or "formulas" - unlike most every other aspect of the game. ;)
Chronus13
03-17-08, 10:44 PM Well, DougDoug I mean Kursk, not all of us are as elite at gaming as you are and it was the "Please read and understand your Core books." that I found rather offensive. I game with a lot of seasoned D&D gamers, myself with 13 years already, and sometimes we disagree upon certain meanings within the rules which is one of the MAIN reasons people uses these forums, so that people that MAY understand the rules more clearly can provide assistance!

I was working with the idea that the secure shelter item would be under the "Use-activated or continuous" part and probably fall under the 24hr rule since it didn't really apply to the other types but I was experimenting with premade items to make sure that would be the correct pricing. That is about when I posted my question here and in essence was called a n00b for not just finding some item already published somewhere else.

One final thing to the elitist, just because I post several questions on the forums at one time doesn't mean I don't understand my books. We had a lot of "firsts" that night in our group and we'd hoped to find out the actual meanigs of the rulings so that we could streamline our game a little more the next time with proper notes and references.
Kursk
03-18-08, 10:05 AM Well, DougDoug I mean Kursk, not all of us are as elite at gaming as you are and it was the "Please read and understand your Core books." that I found rather offensive. I game with a lot of seasoned D&D gamers, myself with 13 years already,

I'm sorry, but after 13 years you would know the DMG magic creation rules to the point of knowing the answer. That is IF, you had read the book. That was my point. Didn't mean to offend, merely educate.
Belkar
03-18-08, 10:43 AM I'm sorry, but after 13 years you would know the DMG magic creation rules to the point of knowing the answer. That is IF, you had read the book. That was my point. Didn't mean to offend, merely educate.

And yet, the former was achieved, with no hint of the latter. :rolleyes:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Chronus13 03-16-08, 07:17 AM	My group wants my wizard to craft wondrous item a "Daern's Instant (whatever the equivalent of having a Leomund's Secure Shelter)". I can not figure out for the life of me how the item creation table applies to it since the Tent version Base Price is 9000 and the Fortress version Base Price is 55,000 Can someone please explain the formula to create such items to me because I really can't figure this out. :(
Kursk 03-16-08, 09:56 AM	My group wants my wizard to craft wondrous item a "Daern's Instant (whatever the equivalent of having a Leomund's Secure Shelter)". I can not figure out for the life of me how the item creation table applies to it since the Tent version Base Price is 9000 and the Fortress version Base Price is 55,000 Can someone please explain the formula to create such items to me because I really can't figure this out. :( There isn't a formula that applies to these items. They gave estimates. I've seen a couple of your posts in other threads. Please read and understand your Core books.
Chronus13 03-16-08, 03:47 PM	Oh, thanks for nothing. I read the item creation tables and I tried to figure out how the premade items were made and I CAN'T figure it out which is the whole reason I posted my question in the first place. I generally only make items that are premade because various items don't make sense when the tables are used to figure out their creation.
Kursk 03-17-08, 10:00 AM	Oh, thanks for nothing. I read the item creation tables and I tried to figure out how the premade items were made and I CAN'T figure it out which is the whole reason I posted my question in the first place. I generally only make items that are premade because various items don't make sense when the tables are used to figure out their creation. Read my 1st sentence. :rolleye2:
mato_hibiki 03-17-08, 10:15 AM	There isn't a formula that applies to these items. They gave estimates. Bolded to prevent rage. ;)
Belkar 03-17-08, 01:55 PM	Yeah, dude. Bottom line, it's a bad idea to create magical items not listed in the books. 3rd edition doesn't support magic item creation in a game balancing way, quite frankly. And considering that the DMG has hundreds of magic items, and the MIC has thousands of them, and each Complete XXXX book has dozens... you shouldn't really ever need to create anything. :confused:
Kursk 03-17-08, 02:13 PM	Yeah, dude. Bottom line, it's a bad idea to create magical items not listed in the books. Actually, for an experienced DM it is quite easy. The large amount of existing items gives you a lot to compare against, balance wise, when creating one.
WombleHunter 03-17-08, 02:20 PM	So basically he wants to make a house that he can fold up and take away? I would price it like this: Secure Shelter is a 4th level spell. I presume he wants to be able to activate it via command word, and at minimum caster level, so the initial price is 4 x 7 x 1800gp, or 50400gp. We'll be generous and say that the 2hr/level duration is equivalent to a 24-hour duration, halving price, for 25200gp. Seems about right to me. There are other modifiers you could apply, but really the effect is pretty limited. As an item with a market price of 25200gp, it would cost the wizard in question 12600gp in materials and 1008xp to craft, and would take 26 days to complete. The magic item creation guidelines really are only guidelines, and you have to wing it a lot. EDIT: Another way to price it could be to increase the caster level to 12 - guaranteeing a 24-hour duration (and continuing to apply the cost reduction) and then treat the item as though it could only be used 1/day: while you could get some use from being able to move house so quickly, really I imagine it's mostly a 1/day use thing anyway; or it might as well be. In this case, it would cost (4 x 12 x 1800) / 2 / 5 = 8640gp market price.
Belkar 03-17-08, 03:11 PM	Actually, for an experienced DM it is quite easy. The large amount of existing items gives you a lot to compare against, balance wise, when creating one. Well, yeah, it's easy to create something by simply modeling it after something existing. But no "tables" exist or "formulas" - unlike most every other aspect of the game. ;)
Chronus13 03-17-08, 10:44 PM	Well, DougDoug I mean Kursk, not all of us are as elite at gaming as you are and it was the "Please read and understand your Core books." that I found rather offensive. I game with a lot of seasoned D&D gamers, myself with 13 years already, and sometimes we disagree upon certain meanings within the rules which is one of the MAIN reasons people uses these forums, so that people that MAY understand the rules more clearly can provide assistance! I was working with the idea that the secure shelter item would be under the "Use-activated or continuous" part and probably fall under the 24hr rule since it didn't really apply to the other types but I was experimenting with premade items to make sure that would be the correct pricing. That is about when I posted my question here and in essence was called a n00b for not just finding some item already published somewhere else. One final thing to the elitist, just because I post several questions on the forums at one time doesn't mean I don't understand my books. We had a lot of "firsts" that night in our group and we'd hoped to find out the actual meanigs of the rulings so that we could streamline our game a little more the next time with proper notes and references.
Kursk 03-18-08, 10:05 AM	Well, DougDoug I mean Kursk, not all of us are as elite at gaming as you are and it was the "Please read and understand your Core books." that I found rather offensive. I game with a lot of seasoned D&D gamers, myself with 13 years already, I'm sorry, but after 13 years you would know the DMG magic creation rules to the point of knowing the answer. That is IF, you had read the book. That was my point. Didn't mean to offend, merely educate.
Belkar 03-18-08, 10:43 AM	I'm sorry, but after 13 years you would know the DMG magic creation rules to the point of knowing the answer. That is IF, you had read the book. That was my point. Didn't mean to offend, merely educate. And yet, the former was achieved, with no hint of the latter. :rolleyes: