Dagger of Defense Q [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dagger of Defense Q [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bonzai
01-20-05, 11:28 AM Quick question, dagger of defense is a +4 defending dagger that when held in your off hand prevents you from being flanked. My question is, if you just hold it in your off hand, use it's defending abilities, and attack with a weapon in the other hand, it doesn't cause your attacks to have the two weapon fighting penalty does it?
Kermez
01-20-05, 11:41 AM Yes, it does.

I don't know if or where in the rules it says it, but I do remember the Sage answering a question like this. To gain the benefits of anything special in your off-hand, like the AC bonus from a defensive weapon, you must take the penalties for two-weapon fighting.
Bonzai
01-20-05, 11:53 AM Ok, we weren't sure about that, but I could see it go either way. Thanks!
tarkin
01-20-05, 01:13 PM Weapons and Shields are both "use activated items."

To gain any benefit from them you must be using them.

Definition of using a shield is receiving the AC bonus against normal attacks.

Defintion of using a weapon in your off hand is attempting to make an attack with it, thereby incurring any TWF penalties if it is in the other hand.
Beamup
01-20-05, 01:45 PM Well, you don't actually have to be making an attack with it (or attempting to), but you do have to be ready to make an attack with it.

But, overall, I firmly concur with the above posters. If you're not taking penalties for TWF, you're only "holding" the dagger rather than "using" or "wielding" it. Thus you gain no benefits related to wielding or using the dagger.

Though there are certain weapons that can grant benefits simply from holding it or even just having it on your person. Such weapons need not incur TWF penalties to use. But anything that specifies you have to wield it does.
Ringrose
01-20-05, 01:45 PM Where is Dagger of Defense from?

Thanks
Bonzai
01-20-05, 07:43 PM The version I'm looking at is in complete adventurer.

Ok, so the defending qualities require an action, so therefor the 2 weapon fighting penalty is given. But simply holding it in your off hand gives you the can't be flanked ability and doesn't tigger the penalty. Got it.
Beamup
01-21-05, 09:30 AM But simply holding it in your off hand gives you the can't be flanked ability and doesn't tigger the penalty. Got it.
Depends on the language of the item. Does it say the holder cannot be flanked? In this case, correct. You need not take TWF penalties to use that power. Or that the wielder cannot be flanked? In this case, you must take the penalties, exactly as with defending. Or something else?

Finally, benefiting from defending does not require an action. It simply requires wielding. Thus it requires taking the TWF penalties (assuming you want to be able to attack with a different weapon) but can still be used if, for example, you're casting a spell as a full-round action. In this case the TWF penalties would be applied to any AoOs you may make in the round.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bonzai 01-20-05, 11:28 AM	Quick question, dagger of defense is a +4 defending dagger that when held in your off hand prevents you from being flanked. My question is, if you just hold it in your off hand, use it's defending abilities, and attack with a weapon in the other hand, it doesn't cause your attacks to have the two weapon fighting penalty does it?
Kermez 01-20-05, 11:41 AM	Yes, it does. I don't know if or where in the rules it says it, but I do remember the Sage answering a question like this. To gain the benefits of anything special in your off-hand, like the AC bonus from a defensive weapon, you must take the penalties for two-weapon fighting.
Bonzai 01-20-05, 11:53 AM	Ok, we weren't sure about that, but I could see it go either way. Thanks!
tarkin 01-20-05, 01:13 PM	Weapons and Shields are both "use activated items." To gain any benefit from them you must be using them. Definition of using a shield is receiving the AC bonus against normal attacks. Defintion of using a weapon in your off hand is attempting to make an attack with it, thereby incurring any TWF penalties if it is in the other hand.
Beamup 01-20-05, 01:45 PM	Well, you don't actually have to be making an attack with it (or attempting to), but you do have to be ready to make an attack with it. But, overall, I firmly concur with the above posters. If you're not taking penalties for TWF, you're only "holding" the dagger rather than "using" or "wielding" it. Thus you gain no benefits related to wielding or using the dagger. Though there are certain weapons that can grant benefits simply from holding it or even just having it on your person. Such weapons need not incur TWF penalties to use. But anything that specifies you have to wield it does.
Ringrose 01-20-05, 01:45 PM	Where is Dagger of Defense from? Thanks
Bonzai 01-20-05, 07:43 PM	The version I'm looking at is in complete adventurer. Ok, so the defending qualities require an action, so therefor the 2 weapon fighting penalty is given. But simply holding it in your off hand gives you the can't be flanked ability and doesn't tigger the penalty. Got it.
Beamup 01-21-05, 09:30 AM	But simply holding it in your off hand gives you the can't be flanked ability and doesn't tigger the penalty. Got it. Depends on the language of the item. Does it say the holder cannot be flanked? In this case, correct. You need not take TWF penalties to use that power. Or that the wielder cannot be flanked? In this case, you must take the penalties, exactly as with defending. Or something else? Finally, benefiting from defending does not require an action. It simply requires wielding. Thus it requires taking the TWF penalties (assuming you want to be able to attack with a different weapon) but can still be used if, for example, you're casting a spell as a full-round action. In this case the TWF penalties would be applied to any AoOs you may make in the round.