Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Throg 06-14-07, 10:44 AM	I'm just feeling abit iffy on this and wasn't sure exactly. Is a Punching Dagger (Or Katar or what have you) concidered a dagger for any benifits of feats/abilities? I was planning on having a Sword Sage that used Shadow Hand Manuvers in a campaign, weilding a Dagger and a Punching Dagger, and since I'm at work I don't have access to the books... and the srd doesn't seem to have a text for the punching dagger I just want to make sure it still works.
AAB 06-14-07, 11:13 AM	no. while it is cool, it is a completely separate weapon.
Kouk 06-14-07, 11:54 AM	Actually, Punching Daggers do not seem to be on any of the Discipline lists as associated weapons. Perhaps you can work it out as a houserule that a Punching Dagger can work for Shadow Hand and perhaps Tiger Claw.
tarkin 06-14-07, 11:57 AM	I once read a Sage advice article that claimed punching daggers counted for daggers with regards to Rogues, as they can 'use any dagger'. I found this advice to be foolish. You can not expect everyone that writes the word "Dagger" in the name or description of their weapon to realize that that meant Rogues are proficient with it. If a weapon is supposed to count as a dagger for all purposes, then it should expressely state so. While the Sage is as official as you usually can get, I consider his ruling to be poor, and house rule against it.
Throg 06-14-07, 12:07 PM	Actually, Punching Daggers do not seem to be on any of the Discipline lists as associated weapons. Perhaps you can work it out as a houserule that a Punching Dagger can work for Shadow Hand and perhaps Tiger Claw. Drat, I actually -have- to talk with my DM... :), it doesn't seem all that bad to allow it to me anyways.. I'm switching a 19-20 x2 Slashing or Piercing for a 20 x3 only Peircing. There's little that Peircing damage over comes in terms of DR, it's usually slashing or bludgening or magic.
Kn1ves 06-14-07, 12:20 PM	I once read a Sage advice article that claimed punching daggers counted for daggers with regards to Rogues, as they can 'use any dagger'. So does that mean that Rogues get all exotic dagger proficiencies for free?
AAB 06-14-07, 01:29 PM	wait a second... ... ... whip dagger....
Kouk 06-14-07, 01:36 PM	I once read a Sage advice article that claimed punching daggers counted for daggers with regards to Rogues, as they can 'use any dagger'. I found this advice to be foolish. You can not expect everyone that writes the word "Dagger" in the name or description of their weapon to realize that that meant Rogues are proficient with it. If a weapon is supposed to count as a dagger for all purposes, then it should expressely state so. While the Sage is as official as you usually can get, I consider his ruling to be poor, and house rule against it. In 3.5 Rogues have proficiency with all Simple Weapons, which includes the Punching Dagger, and in version 3.0 they are proficient in "dagger (any type)". Punching daggers are listed as 'Dagger, Punching' so that seems like a qualifier of it being a variant dagger. Contrasted with the 3.0 monk which just lists "dagger" as a proficiency, and also considering that there aren't any other "types" of dagger in the PHB besides a punching dagger, I would have to agree with the Sage. Assuming we are talking about 3.0 at least. In 3.0, I suppose it would mean they are proficient with exotic daggers, all one of them. The whip dagger is a kind of whip, as explained in its description. It just has dagger in the name.