Daggers in Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Daggers in Combat [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
AngelDust Anderson
11-13-05, 04:01 AM I'm trying to make a fighter (maybe multiclass?) who specialises in using daggers and daggerlike weapons (Punching dagger ect)

Does anyone have any ideas on what are good feats/items/classes to use for this?

Thanks in Advance!

-Anderson
Skeemer
11-13-05, 04:03 AM Invisible Blade and Master Thrower from Complete Warrior.

Maybe Whisperknife from Races of the Wild...
AngelDust Anderson
11-13-05, 04:41 AM What does the wisperknife do? I already knew about the Invisible blade and i can guess what the master thrower does. Thanks!

-Anderson
Egres
11-13-05, 05:36 AM I'm trying to make a fighter (maybe multiclass?) who specialises in using daggers and daggerlike weapons (Punching dagger ect)

Does anyone have any ideas on what are good feats/items/classes to use for this?

Thanks in Advance!

-Anderson
Daggerspell Shaper and Mage, from the CAdv.
nonsi
11-13-05, 07:41 AM I'm trying to make a fighter (maybe multiclass?) who specialises in using daggers and daggerlike weapons (Punching dagger ect)

Does anyone have any ideas on what are good feats/items/classes to use for this?

Thanks in Advance!

-Anderson

level 1. start as a 1st level humak monk and focus on STR and DEX. take Improved Grapple, Dodge, and Mobility and get yourself a nice chain shirt (mithral when you can afford it) since your WIS isn't going to be that high anyway.
level 2. continue to 2nd monk level and get Combat Reflexes.

. . . . . . abandon the monk and continue with a fighter.

level 3. take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip.
level 4: be patient and save the feat
level 5: use the feat slot and take Spring Attack.
level 6: take Whirlwind Attack and Improved Disarm.

if you play strictly core rules, use 2 kukri for the nice critical rage.
if your DM is opened minded, go to www.d20srd.ord take a peek at weapon-groups varian rules. this will allow you to gain proficiancy with the SAPARA (cmplete warrior), a small sword that does slashing damage and can trip.

and there you have it, a nice and effective knife butcher, with an extra bonus to ref and will saves and as a bonus, you can gain 5 Tumble ranks. and because you started as a monk, you maximize STR bonus with both hands (monks have no off hand) ....... all at the "terrible cost" of 4 potential HP and -1 BAB agains a pure fighter.
ShadowCub
11-13-05, 08:43 AM and there you have it, a nice and effective knife butcher, with an extra bonus to ref and will saves and as a bonus, you can gain 5 Tumble ranks. and because you started as a monk, you maximize STR bonus with both hands (monks have no off hand) ....... all at the "terrible cost" of 4 potential HP and -1 BAB agains a pure fighter.

Sweet! :bow: Now why isn't this on the Character Optimization board? :cheer:
cere
11-13-05, 08:53 AM Because you cant "hold back" a feat. Unless you have a really Nice DM :P
primemover003
11-13-05, 09:14 AM Obviously we know Nonsi doesn't play "strictly core" if he's saving a feat...
nonsi
11-13-05, 11:04 AM Obviously we know Nonsi doesn't play "strictly core" if he's saving a feat...

according to the constant drift toward mechanical realism, I'll be very surprised if the weapon-groups concept isn't incorporated into the next official PHB.
ShinAkuma2
11-13-05, 11:52 AM and because you started as a monk, you maximize STR bonus with both hands (monks have no off hand) ....... all at the "terrible cost" of 4 potential HP and -1 BAB agains a pure fighter.

That only applies to Flurry of Blows. Two-Weapon Fighting get a 1/2 STR on the off-hand as normal.

And, thanks to the armor you'd be wearing, you couldn't even flurry.

If you really want to "save the feat", take a level in something else before the second level of Fighter. A level of Ranger never hurts. Two levels will get you two-weapon fighting to actually be good with dual weilding.

If you want daggers, Rogue is the way to go, hands down. Go for Invisible Blade, Daggerspell shaper/mage, or Master Thrower, as was suggested.
nonsi
11-13-05, 12:01 PM That only applies to Flurry of Blows. Two-Weapon Fighting get a 1/2 STR on the off-hand as normal.

And, thanks to the armor you'd be wearing, you couldn't even flurry.

If you really want to "save the feat", take a level in something else before the second level of Fighter. A level of Ranger never hurts. Two levels will get you two-weapon fighting to actually be good with dual weilding.

If you want daggers, Rogue is the way to go, hands down. Go for Invisible Blade, Daggerspell shaper/mage, or Master Thrower, as was suggested.

since you mentioned it, how does flurry go with 2-wpn-f + improved + greater ?

I don't thing they can be mixed anyway.
gorfnad the shiznit
11-14-05, 08:06 AM I have played a dagger weilding character that followed this template

1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot
2. Fighter - Weapon Focus (kukri or dagger)
3. Fighter - Weapon Finese (kukri or dagger), Far Shot
4. Rogue - for the evasion
5. Ranger - for some prestige prereqs (see note below)
6. Ranger - Two Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw
7. Invisible Blade
8. Invisible Blade
9. Invisible Blade - Combat Reflexes
10. Invisible Blade
11. Invisible Blade

After level 11 find the 3rd party book Complete Guide to Drow by Goodman Games (the 3.5 compatible version) and pick up the prestige class of Dark Blade (which is avaiable to any race, the levels of ranger net you the prereqs for this class). As far as feats go for levels 12, 15, and 18, I would suggest finishing up the two weapon fighting tree.

Otherwise start off as a halfling use this build and after level 11 go into the Whisperknife prestige class from Races of the Wild.
tarkin
11-14-05, 12:18 PM If throwing things, consider finding things that can reduce your size.

You get significant benefits to hit (+ from greater Dex, + from size reductiln), but only have the penalty to damage from strength, as when you throw an item, it returns to it's original size.
Tony Vargas
11-14-05, 01:15 PM Good feats for a 'knife fighter' include:

PBS, Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Quickdraw
TWF (ITWF, GTWF, TWD)
Improved Crit
WF&Specialization
Weapon Finesse.

With Quickdraw, Rapid Shot and TWF you can throw 3 daggers/round, even with a relatively low BAB. At BAB 6, if you add ITWF, that goes up to 5.

Obviously, you can't afford to enchant all those daggers, so WF/S can help, and Improved Crit can be very nice (you're all but gauranteed crits when making 3 or 5 or more attacks/round with a 17-20 threat range).

TWF calls for a high DEX, if it's higher than your STR, Weapon Finesse can boost your melee AB.

Normally attractive feats like Power Attack & Cleave or Spring or WWA are less desireable for this sort of character, since he can and should be making Full Attacks virtually every round, anyway, can't power attack with a light weapon, and is unlikely to 'overkill' an opponent by much.
AngelDust Anderson
11-16-05, 03:41 AM This is all wonderfuly helpful!

I can't wait to put 15-20 daggers into some of my DM's precious monsters.

Just for flavor purposes I think I will try to get an item that will allow me to use the spell Mirror Image. Lots of me throwing nearly 50 blades a round total. Pity most are illusions.

Thankyou to everyone who has contributed to this so far.

-Anderson

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AngelDust Anderson 11-13-05, 04:01 AM	I'm trying to make a fighter (maybe multiclass?) who specialises in using daggers and daggerlike weapons (Punching dagger ect) Does anyone have any ideas on what are good feats/items/classes to use for this? Thanks in Advance! -Anderson
Skeemer 11-13-05, 04:03 AM	Invisible Blade and Master Thrower from Complete Warrior. Maybe Whisperknife from Races of the Wild...
AngelDust Anderson 11-13-05, 04:41 AM	What does the wisperknife do? I already knew about the Invisible blade and i can guess what the master thrower does. Thanks! -Anderson
Egres 11-13-05, 05:36 AM	I'm trying to make a fighter (maybe multiclass?) who specialises in using daggers and daggerlike weapons (Punching dagger ect) Does anyone have any ideas on what are good feats/items/classes to use for this? Thanks in Advance! -Anderson Daggerspell Shaper and Mage, from the CAdv.
nonsi 11-13-05, 07:41 AM	I'm trying to make a fighter (maybe multiclass?) who specialises in using daggers and daggerlike weapons (Punching dagger ect) Does anyone have any ideas on what are good feats/items/classes to use for this? Thanks in Advance! -Anderson level 1. start as a 1st level humak monk and focus on STR and DEX. take Improved Grapple, Dodge, and Mobility and get yourself a nice chain shirt (mithral when you can afford it) since your WIS isn't going to be that high anyway. level 2. continue to 2nd monk level and get Combat Reflexes. . . . . . . abandon the monk and continue with a fighter. level 3. take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. level 4: be patient and save the feat level 5: use the feat slot and take Spring Attack. level 6: take Whirlwind Attack and Improved Disarm. if you play strictly core rules, use 2 kukri for the nice critical rage. if your DM is opened minded, go to www.d20srd.ord take a peek at weapon-groups varian rules. this will allow you to gain proficiancy with the SAPARA (cmplete warrior), a small sword that does slashing damage and can trip. and there you have it, a nice and effective knife butcher, with an extra bonus to ref and will saves and as a bonus, you can gain 5 Tumble ranks. and because you started as a monk, you maximize STR bonus with both hands (monks have no off hand) ....... all at the "terrible cost" of 4 potential HP and -1 BAB agains a pure fighter.
ShadowCub 11-13-05, 08:43 AM	and there you have it, a nice and effective knife butcher, with an extra bonus to ref and will saves and as a bonus, you can gain 5 Tumble ranks. and because you started as a monk, you maximize STR bonus with both hands (monks have no off hand) ....... all at the "terrible cost" of 4 potential HP and -1 BAB agains a pure fighter. Sweet! :bow: Now why isn't this on the Character Optimization board? :cheer:
cere 11-13-05, 08:53 AM	Because you cant "hold back" a feat. Unless you have a really Nice DM :P
primemover003 11-13-05, 09:14 AM	Obviously we know Nonsi doesn't play "strictly core" if he's saving a feat...
nonsi 11-13-05, 11:04 AM	Obviously we know Nonsi doesn't play "strictly core" if he's saving a feat... according to the constant drift toward mechanical realism, I'll be very surprised if the weapon-groups concept isn't incorporated into the next official PHB.
ShinAkuma2 11-13-05, 11:52 AM	and because you started as a monk, you maximize STR bonus with both hands (monks have no off hand) ....... all at the "terrible cost" of 4 potential HP and -1 BAB agains a pure fighter. That only applies to Flurry of Blows. Two-Weapon Fighting get a 1/2 STR on the off-hand as normal. And, thanks to the armor you'd be wearing, you couldn't even flurry. If you really want to "save the feat", take a level in something else before the second level of Fighter. A level of Ranger never hurts. Two levels will get you two-weapon fighting to actually be good with dual weilding. If you want daggers, Rogue is the way to go, hands down. Go for Invisible Blade, Daggerspell shaper/mage, or Master Thrower, as was suggested.
nonsi 11-13-05, 12:01 PM	That only applies to Flurry of Blows. Two-Weapon Fighting get a 1/2 STR on the off-hand as normal. And, thanks to the armor you'd be wearing, you couldn't even flurry. If you really want to "save the feat", take a level in something else before the second level of Fighter. A level of Ranger never hurts. Two levels will get you two-weapon fighting to actually be good with dual weilding. If you want daggers, Rogue is the way to go, hands down. Go for Invisible Blade, Daggerspell shaper/mage, or Master Thrower, as was suggested. since you mentioned it, how does flurry go with 2-wpn-f + improved + greater ? I don't thing they can be mixed anyway.
gorfnad the shiznit 11-14-05, 08:06 AM	I have played a dagger weilding character that followed this template 1. Rogue - Point Blank Shot 2. Fighter - Weapon Focus (kukri or dagger) 3. Fighter - Weapon Finese (kukri or dagger), Far Shot 4. Rogue - for the evasion 5. Ranger - for some prestige prereqs (see note below) 6. Ranger - Two Weapon Fighting, Quick Draw 7. Invisible Blade 8. Invisible Blade 9. Invisible Blade - Combat Reflexes 10. Invisible Blade 11. Invisible Blade After level 11 find the 3rd party book Complete Guide to Drow by Goodman Games (the 3.5 compatible version) and pick up the prestige class of Dark Blade (which is avaiable to any race, the levels of ranger net you the prereqs for this class). As far as feats go for levels 12, 15, and 18, I would suggest finishing up the two weapon fighting tree. Otherwise start off as a halfling use this build and after level 11 go into the Whisperknife prestige class from Races of the Wild.
tarkin 11-14-05, 12:18 PM	If throwing things, consider finding things that can reduce your size. You get significant benefits to hit (+ from greater Dex, + from size reductiln), but only have the penalty to damage from strength, as when you throw an item, it returns to it's original size.
Tony Vargas 11-14-05, 01:15 PM	Good feats for a 'knife fighter' include: PBS, Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Quickdraw TWF (ITWF, GTWF, TWD) Improved Crit WF&Specialization Weapon Finesse. With Quickdraw, Rapid Shot and TWF you can throw 3 daggers/round, even with a relatively low BAB. At BAB 6, if you add ITWF, that goes up to 5. Obviously, you can't afford to enchant all those daggers, so WF/S can help, and Improved Crit can be very nice (you're all but gauranteed crits when making 3 or 5 or more attacks/round with a 17-20 threat range). TWF calls for a high DEX, if it's higher than your STR, Weapon Finesse can boost your melee AB. Normally attractive feats like Power Attack & Cleave or Spring or WWA are less desireable for this sort of character, since he can and should be making Full Attacks virtually every round, anyway, can't power attack with a light weapon, and is unlikely to 'overkill' an opponent by much.
AngelDust Anderson 11-16-05, 03:41 AM	This is all wonderfuly helpful! I can't wait to put 15-20 daggers into some of my DM's precious monsters. Just for flavor purposes I think I will try to get an item that will allow me to use the spell Mirror Image. Lots of me throwing nearly 50 blades a round total. Pity most are illusions. Thankyou to everyone who has contributed to this so far. -Anderson