Damage from a Charging Lance [Archive] - Wizards Community

Damage from a Charging Lance [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Capt. Pixel
04-04-05, 07:46 PM Sorry if this has been covered, but the Search function is next to useless today.

The question is:

I have a light Lance (1d6/3x)

I charge with the lance (double damage in a Charge)

I have the Feat 'Spirited Charge' (triple damage with a lance rather than double damage)

AND

It's a critical hit (1d6/3x)

Is the Critical hit (3d6) tripled to 9d6 when using Spirited Charge?

I contend that the damage would be 9d6 (+9 times STR bonus)

Others contend that the damage would only be 5d6 (+5 times STR bonus) (He is invoking the double/doubled is only a triple rule - which I believe doesn't apply here)

Or is there another answer?

non-sarcastic remarks would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, in advance. :cool:
Yobgod Ababua
04-04-05, 09:29 PM (He is invoking the double/doubled is only a triple rule - which I believe doesn't apply here)

That rule especially applies to weapon damage multipliers. Why would you think otherwise?

Your friend's analysis should be correct and the final result will be 5d6 + 5x STR bonus.
Isn't that enough? 9d6 would be a -lot- of damage for a low level character... comparable to a 16th level rogue's sneak attack or a 9th level wizard's fireball.
Capt. Pixel
04-04-05, 10:46 PM Right you are!

I got home and started studying this issue. I found the answer in the PHB appendix (3.0 pg 275) under 'Multiplying'.

When two or more multipliers apply, however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (x2) and a double (x2) applied to the same number results in a triple (x3, because 2 + 1 = 3)

So, in my example above:

Critical hit with a Light Lance (x3), Spirited Charge with a Light Lance (x3) yields (3 + 2 = 5) 5x damage plus 5x STR bonus.

Light Lance Damage (1d6/3x)

Regular Hit............................1d6 + 1x STR bonus
Charging from mount...............2d6 + 2x STR
Critical Hit.............................3d6 + 3x STR
Spirited Charge......................3d6 + 3x STR
Charging w/ Critical Hit............4d6 + 4x STR
Spirited Charge w/ Critical Hit...5d6 + 5x STR

A truly fierce combination of weapon and feat if there ever was one.

Thanks for your response Yobgod, it helped clear up a misconception. :cool:
Chosen of Bane
04-04-05, 11:04 PM I see one small problem in your calculations.

A lance is a two handed weapon so it does 1d6 + 1.5 x STR instead of + 1 x STR.
Akharu
04-04-05, 11:28 PM page 304 is the 3.5 handbook...if anyone cares.
Bulabase
04-04-05, 11:47 PM I see one small problem in your calculations.

A lance is a two handed weapon so it does 1d6 + 1.5 x STR instead of + 1 x STR.
A lance is unusual in that it can be wielded either two handed or one handed. IIRC, the one handed option is only available if the character is mounted.
Chosen of Bane
04-04-05, 11:55 PM I seem to remember the lance still counting as a two handed weapon when mounted even though it is common to hold it with just one hand. I know I read that somewhere but can't remember if it was these boards or the PHB.
Krothos
04-04-05, 11:58 PM I just looked in the PHB and a Medium lance does 1d8 damage and Small lance does 1d6.
Just to keep the record straight.

:D
sorvikcorsair
04-04-05, 11:59 PM I seem to remember the lance still counting as a two handed weapon when mounted even though it is common to hold it with just one hand. I know I read that somewhere but can't remember if it was these boards or the PHB.

Can't find it, but still looking, just did a jousting event in my campaign and it was 1.5 str, that is to account for the horse's (mount's) charge.

Once find will post.
kjenks
04-05-05, 09:15 AM He said a "light lance" so he's probably playing 3e, not 3.5e. The one-handed vs. two-handed rules are slightly different.
Chosen of Bane
04-05-05, 10:29 AM He said a "light lance" so he's probably playing 3e, not 3.5e. The one-handed vs. two-handed rules are slightly different.

Ah, that explains it. I was assuming he meant a lance for a small character such as a halfling or gnome. In 3.0 did two handed weapons get 1.5 x the strength bonus?
Rim-Soulfang
04-05-05, 11:26 AM It's funny though, the light and heavy lances are still on the illustration even in 3.5.
Capt. Pixel
04-05-05, 11:51 AM Just to further clarify:

I am referring to 3.0 Light Lance. (Being used by a Halfling mounted on a Wolf)

Using a weapon Two-handed does give a 1.5x STR bonus in 3.0 rules.

I can't find any reference (3.0) that imparts the 1.5x STR bonus to damage when mounted. But a small PC (a halfling, in this case) could use the Light Lance (a small weapon) two-handed and gain that additional bonus.

Thanks all for your input. :cool:
mvincent
04-05-05, 12:05 PM Using a weapon Two-handed does give a 1.5x STR bonus in 3.0 rules.

I can't find any reference (3.0) that imparts the 1.5x STR bonus to damage when mounted.To clarify: a two-handed lance still does 1.5x STR damage when used one-handed while mounted.
Sir Ferdinand
04-05-05, 01:27 PM To clarify: a two-handed lance still does 1.5x STR damage when used one-handed while mounted.

No it doesn't. If you use it one-handed, even when mounted, it'll deal 1x Str damage, and that's it. There's nothing in the rules stating otherwise. If you use lance two-handed, even mounted, then it'll deal 1.5x Str damage, and that's it.
mvincent
04-05-05, 02:04 PM No it doesn't. If you use it one-handed, even when mounted, it'll deal 1x Str damage, and that's it. There's nothing in the rules stating otherwise. If you use lance two-handed, even mounted, then it'll deal 1.5x Str damage, and that's it.Fiesty, aren't ya ;)

This has been discussed at length elsewhere. I was trying to give the group a direct answer without repeating that whole conversation. Basically, you can play as you like, but the intent of the rule was to allow someone use a lance as intended (1 handed) without doing less damage. The text "While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand." is a rule exception that does not actually change it's damage or weapon type (i.e. it is still considered a two-handed weapon). It represents the fact lances didn't do more damage when an extra hand was used (which would look silly anyway)... it's the couching that made them deadly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Capt. Pixel 04-04-05, 07:46 PM	Sorry if this has been covered, but the Search function is next to useless today. The question is: I have a light Lance (1d6/3x) I charge with the lance (double damage in a Charge) I have the Feat 'Spirited Charge' (triple damage with a lance rather than double damage) AND It's a critical hit (1d6/3x) Is the Critical hit (3d6) tripled to 9d6 when using Spirited Charge? I contend that the damage would be 9d6 (+9 times STR bonus) Others contend that the damage would only be 5d6 (+5 times STR bonus) (He is invoking the double/doubled is only a triple rule - which I believe doesn't apply here) Or is there another answer? non-sarcastic remarks would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, in advance. :cool:
Yobgod Ababua 04-04-05, 09:29 PM	(He is invoking the double/doubled is only a triple rule - which I believe doesn't apply here) That rule especially applies to weapon damage multipliers. Why would you think otherwise? Your friend's analysis should be correct and the final result will be 5d6 + 5x STR bonus. Isn't that enough? 9d6 would be a -lot- of damage for a low level character... comparable to a 16th level rogue's sneak attack or a 9th level wizard's fireball.
Capt. Pixel 04-04-05, 10:46 PM	Right you are! I got home and started studying this issue. I found the answer in the PHB appendix (3.0 pg 275) under 'Multiplying'. When two or more multipliers apply, however, combine them into a single multiple, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. Thus, a double (x2) and a double (x2) applied to the same number results in a triple (x3, because 2 + 1 = 3) So, in my example above: Critical hit with a Light Lance (x3), Spirited Charge with a Light Lance (x3) yields (3 + 2 = 5) 5x damage plus 5x STR bonus. Light Lance Damage (1d6/3x) Regular Hit............................1d6 + 1x STR bonus Charging from mount...............2d6 + 2x STR Critical Hit.............................3d6 + 3x STR Spirited Charge......................3d6 + 3x STR Charging w/ Critical Hit............4d6 + 4x STR Spirited Charge w/ Critical Hit...5d6 + 5x STR A truly fierce combination of weapon and feat if there ever was one. Thanks for your response Yobgod, it helped clear up a misconception. :cool:
Chosen of Bane 04-04-05, 11:04 PM	I see one small problem in your calculations. A lance is a two handed weapon so it does 1d6 + 1.5 x STR instead of + 1 x STR.
Akharu 04-04-05, 11:28 PM	page 304 is the 3.5 handbook...if anyone cares.
Bulabase 04-04-05, 11:47 PM	I see one small problem in your calculations. A lance is a two handed weapon so it does 1d6 + 1.5 x STR instead of + 1 x STR. A lance is unusual in that it can be wielded either two handed or one handed. IIRC, the one handed option is only available if the character is mounted.
Chosen of Bane 04-04-05, 11:55 PM	I seem to remember the lance still counting as a two handed weapon when mounted even though it is common to hold it with just one hand. I know I read that somewhere but can't remember if it was these boards or the PHB.
Krothos 04-04-05, 11:58 PM	I just looked in the PHB and a Medium lance does 1d8 damage and Small lance does 1d6. Just to keep the record straight. :D
sorvikcorsair 04-04-05, 11:59 PM	I seem to remember the lance still counting as a two handed weapon when mounted even though it is common to hold it with just one hand. I know I read that somewhere but can't remember if it was these boards or the PHB. Can't find it, but still looking, just did a jousting event in my campaign and it was 1.5 str, that is to account for the horse's (mount's) charge. Once find will post.
kjenks 04-05-05, 09:15 AM	He said a "light lance" so he's probably playing 3e, not 3.5e. The one-handed vs. two-handed rules are slightly different.
Chosen of Bane 04-05-05, 10:29 AM	He said a "light lance" so he's probably playing 3e, not 3.5e. The one-handed vs. two-handed rules are slightly different. Ah, that explains it. I was assuming he meant a lance for a small character such as a halfling or gnome. In 3.0 did two handed weapons get 1.5 x the strength bonus?
Rim-Soulfang 04-05-05, 11:26 AM	It's funny though, the light and heavy lances are still on the illustration even in 3.5.
Capt. Pixel 04-05-05, 11:51 AM	Just to further clarify: I am referring to 3.0 Light Lance. (Being used by a Halfling mounted on a Wolf) Using a weapon Two-handed does give a 1.5x STR bonus in 3.0 rules. I can't find any reference (3.0) that imparts the 1.5x STR bonus to damage when mounted. But a small PC (a halfling, in this case) could use the Light Lance (a small weapon) two-handed and gain that additional bonus. Thanks all for your input. :cool:
mvincent 04-05-05, 12:05 PM	Using a weapon Two-handed does give a 1.5x STR bonus in 3.0 rules. I can't find any reference (3.0) that imparts the 1.5x STR bonus to damage when mounted.To clarify: a two-handed lance still does 1.5x STR damage when used one-handed while mounted.
Sir Ferdinand 04-05-05, 01:27 PM	To clarify: a two-handed lance still does 1.5x STR damage when used one-handed while mounted. No it doesn't. If you use it one-handed, even when mounted, it'll deal 1x Str damage, and that's it. There's nothing in the rules stating otherwise. If you use lance two-handed, even mounted, then it'll deal 1.5x Str damage, and that's it.
mvincent 04-05-05, 02:04 PM	No it doesn't. If you use it one-handed, even when mounted, it'll deal 1x Str damage, and that's it. There's nothing in the rules stating otherwise. If you use lance two-handed, even mounted, then it'll deal 1.5x Str damage, and that's it.Fiesty, aren't ya ;) This has been discussed at length elsewhere. I was trying to give the group a direct answer without repeating that whole conversation. Basically, you can play as you like, but the intent of the rule was to allow someone use a lance as intended (1 handed) without doing less damage. The text "While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand." is a rule exception that does not actually change it's damage or weapon type (i.e. it is still considered a two-handed weapon). It represents the fact lances didn't do more damage when an extra hand was used (which would look silly anyway)... it's the couching that made them deadly.