Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Guyver027 02-20-07, 02:16 PM	If a creature has damage red 5/magic does a +1 or higher weapon bypass this? Or only spells, evocation, ect?
Witch 02-20-07, 02:18 PM	A +1 weapon bypasses it. Spells etcetera are entirely irrelevant, as not a single form of DR protects against spells.
LostPassWordDoesNotWork 02-20-07, 02:20 PM	Yes, and spells are not effected by DR. DR is just more nerfing to the fighter type classes.
durwain 02-20-07, 03:15 PM	If damage reduction/magic is so easly passed by a +1 wep then why does a monk hands treated as magic wepons to by pass dam red/magic and it does not say that under +1 wepons they pass dr/magic and if they did then why does the cr 9 even have dr/magic when u mostly have a +1 wep by lvl 5
LordBOB777 02-20-07, 03:15 PM	If I remember correctly, back in 3.0 they had DR/+1,+2, ect... and now its just DR/Magic
ShinAkuma2 02-20-07, 03:38 PM	If damage reduction/magic is so easly passed by a +1 wep then why does a monk hands treated as magic wepons to by pass dam red/magic and it does not say that under +1 wepons they pass dr/magic and if they did then why does the cr 9 even have dr/magic when u mostly have a +1 wep by lvl 5 Assuming I understand your question... Monks bypass DR/Magic eventually because they use Ki to replicate magical energy. +1 weapons don't say they bypass DR/Magic because that's redundant. Of course they bypass DR/Magic. That's why DR/Magic exists. That'd be like if every bludgeoning (for example) weapon in the PHB had an entry that said, "This weapon bypasses DR/Bludgeoning." Plenty of monsters of DR/Magic, even at high levels. Dragons of any respectable CR have it, for instance. This is mostly a holdover from 3.0, when DR/Magic came in grades...If your weapon didn't have a high enough enhancement bonus, you couldn't bypass the DR. DR/Magic was more meaningful when it was DR X/+3 or more. Anyway, not everyone has a magic weapon. Wildshaping druids (and animal companions), if they don't know to Magic Fang first, won't be doing magic damage. People stuck using secondary weapons in a grapple won't, either. If a Big Nasty with DR 10/magic grapples a melee-type who relies on a large sword, all of a sudden he has to rely on a dagger or fist for single-digit damage. All of this will bounce off the Big Nasty's hide if the fighter hasn't had the time/money/opportunity/foresight to get his crappy back-up weapon magicked.
Merestil Haye 02-20-07, 03:44 PM	Let's try and take this in some kind of order.If damage reduction/magic is so easly passed by a +1 wep then why does a monk hands treated as magic wepons to by pass dam red/magicA Monk's unarmed strike - not his hands - bypass DR / magic so that he can effectively attack monsters with DR x/Magic. Otherwise (considering how little damage monks actually deal per blow) they'd be totally ineffectual with their major armament. and it does not say that under +1 wepons they pass dr/magicNo, it states it quite clearly in the rules for Damage Reduction. The exact wording isSome monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Finally :and if they did then why does the cr 9 even have dr/magic when u mostly have a +1 wep by lvl 5Sometimes you don't. Sometimes you have the wrong enchanted weapon and don't have a reserve.
LostPassWordDoesNotWork 02-20-07, 03:50 PM	If damage reduction/magic is so easly passed by a +1 wep then why does a monk hands treated as magic wepons to by pass dam red/magic and it does not say that under +1 wepons they pass dr/magic and if they did then why does the cr 9 even have dr/magic when u mostly have a +1 wep by lvl 5 Note; I can barly make sense of your post, no offense. Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. The rest of the info. Damage Reduction A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below. The entry indicates the amount of damage ignored (usually 5 to 15 points) and the type of weapon that negates the ability. Some monsters are vulnerable to piercing, bludgeoning, or slashing damage. Some monsters are vulnerable to certain materials, such as alchemical silver, adamantine, or cold iron. Attacks from weapons that are not made of the correct material have their damage reduced, even if the weapon has an enhancement bonus. Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures’ natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons; that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Some monsters are vulnerable to chaotic-, evil-, good-, or lawful-aligned weapons. When a cleric casts align weapon, affected weapons might gain one or more of these properties, and certain magic weapons have these properties as well. A creature with an alignment subtype (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful) can overcome this type of damage reduction with its natural weapons and weapons it wields as if the weapons or natural weapons had an alignment (or alignments) that match the subtype(s) of the creature. When a damage reduction entry has a dash (-) after the slash, no weapon negates the damage reduction. A few creatures are harmed by more than one kind of weapon. A weapon of either type overcomes this damage reduction. A few other creatures require combinations of different types of attacks to overcome their damage reduction. A weapon must be both types to overcome this damage reduction. A weapon that is only one type is still subject to damage reduction. Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have). Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact. Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells. If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.
savant_warlord13 02-20-07, 04:16 PM	Actually, I believe DR applies against certain spells, just as it protects against certain psionic powers (see Complete Psionic). The psionic powers that DR protects against are metacreativity powers that deal damage specified as bludgeoning, piercing and/or slashing. So I guess DR might apply against conjuration spells of that sort.
Merestil Haye 02-20-07, 05:13 PM	Actually, I believe DR applies against certain spells, just as it protects against certain psionic powers (see Complete Psionic). The psionic powers that DR protects against are metacreativity powers that deal damage specified as bludgeoning, piercing and/or slashing. So I guess DR might apply against conjuration spells of that sort.DR applies against no spell whatsoever.The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below.Damage arising from the attack of a summoned creature or a change in the environment caused by an instantaneous spell will be reduced by DR, but DR never reduces the damage from a spell. Not even if the spell states it deals a certain physical kind of damage, and the creature has DR that the damage does not bypass (eg zombies caught in an Ice Storm). It is still damage from a spell, and DR does not apply.
Witch 02-20-07, 05:15 PM	Complete Psionics made a stupid exception to that rule however, and has hence broken the absoluteness of that rule.
primemover003 02-20-07, 05:36 PM	The point of saying a spell does Bludgeoning or Piercing damage and some energy damage is to let a caster know that he can still do damage to a creature with resistance or immunity to the energy type not a notice that DR would apply. It's like Flame Strike states that half is divine damage and not fire, it lets you know you can still hurt fire resistant creatures with the spell.
cwslyclgh 02-20-07, 07:07 PM	DR applies against no spell whatsoever.that is not quite true, there a rare few spells that say in the spell description that DR specifically applies to them (the spell compendium versions of splinterbolt and ring of blades spring to mind)... however they are the exception not the rule generaly DR never applies to damage caused by a spell.
Merestil Haye 02-20-07, 07:15 PM	that is not quite true, there a rare few spells that say in the spell description that DR specifically applies to them (the spell compendium versions of splinterbolt and ring of blades spring to mind)... however they are the exception not the rule generaly DR never applies to damage caused by a spell.Thanks for that. :) If the designers find it necessary to explicitly announce in the text of spell X that it is subject to DR, that's a good indicator that the general rule is that spell damage is not subject to DR. Complete Psionics made a stupid exception to that rule however, and has hence broken the absoluteness of that rule.They did? Care to summarise? I don't own CPs, and don't use psionics either so I've not been interested enough to read it.
Witch 02-20-07, 07:19 PM	They did? Care to summarise? What springs to mind is that they made Crystal Shard (refer to the SRD for more info) susceptible to DR.
Merestil Haye 02-20-07, 08:02 PM	What springs to mind is that they made Crystal Shard (refer to the SRD for more info) susceptible to DR.Ok thanks. A quick read suggests that the discipline / subdiscipline is closely equivalent to Conjuration (Creation), and the power is of instantaneous duration. I think they've avoided Conjuration (Creation) spells with instantaneous duration the effect of which is to fire a newly-created physical object at a target, and if there was such a spell they would rule it subject to DR, in a similar fashion to ruling that damage from a sword created by Fabricate would be subject to DR.
Ozar 02-20-07, 10:24 PM	Wait, so Evard's Black Tentacles or Ice Storm's bludgeoning damage does bypass DR? How?
Neutronium_Dragon 02-21-07, 12:31 AM	Spell effects always bypass DR unless they're using a non-magical intermediary, such as Summon Monster. Another quirky example is Launch Bolt, which simply fires a normal crossbow bolt without needing a crossbow. DR/Magic is generally a cosmetic feature against high level PCs, but it does help to reduce the effectiveness of some types of minions which don't have any built-in means to bypass it. Creatures whose DR is meant to have teeth against PCs at higher levels will have DR/Material or DR/Alignment, or at very high level, DR/Epic.
LostPassWordDoesNotWork 02-21-07, 12:32 AM	Wait, so Evard's Black Tentacles or Ice Storm's bludgeoning damage does bypass DR? How? Read again. Damage Reduction A creature with this special quality ignores damage from most weapons and natural attacks. Wounds heal immediately, or the weapon bounces off harmlessly (in either case, the opponent knows the attack was ineffective). The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones), spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. A certain kind of weapon can sometimes damage the creature normally, as noted below. If the spell says apply DR then that is part of that spells effect. In case you have not read chapters 10 or 11. Spells can pretty much do what they want and alter how something works as part of the spells effects. By your line of questioning I should ask why grease forces balance checks since the skill says nothing about balancing on a 500x500 mile flat surface.
Ozar 02-21-07, 12:39 AM	Read again. If the spell says apply DR then that is part of that spells effect. In case you have not read chapters 10 or 11. Spells can pretty much do what they want and alter how something works as part of the spells effects. By your line of questioning I should ask why grease forces balance checks since the skill says nothing about balancing on a 500x500 mile flat surface. Er.. sorry? In any case this is good news for me, as I was under the opposite impression. Now I just have to hope my DM agrees with this.
LostPassWordDoesNotWork 02-21-07, 01:18 AM	Your DM can go with rule 0 and say DR applies. I'd go with it, and not just becuse the damage is non-energy. Conjuration (Creation) spells do not check SR becuse the spell only creates something, thats it. Evard's Black Tentacles are pretty much a summoned creature.