Damage Reduction.. a bit confused [Archive] - Wizards Community

Damage Reduction.. a bit confused [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Maekrix
02-19-06, 08:22 PM How does Damage Reduction (DR) actually work. Does it reduce every attack, or do each attack during said player's turn stack against it.

For instance, Doban the fighter has a +6/+1, giving him two attacks. He has a mundane sword and he's fighting a creature with 10/+1 DR.

First hit: 8 damage (not enough to over-come DR)
Second hit: 3 damage

Does Doban's damage stack against the DR for that turn dealing 11 (-10 for DR) =1 damage, or are his attacks counted separately, dealing absolutely no damage.
CryoSilver
02-19-06, 08:29 PM DR is assessed against each instance of damage.

If a creature has DR 5/- and you hit it twice, for 6 and 2, you deal it 1 damage.

6-5=1
2-5=<0=0
Zherog
02-19-06, 08:29 PM DR applies to each attack individually.
Shaggy_Shaggs
02-19-06, 08:39 PM Also if a level six fighter can't push at least a few points of damage past DR 10/magic with a mundane weapon, he probably deserves to be eaten.
Power Attack, people! :nonono:
Tyler Do'Urden
02-19-06, 08:45 PM Yes, in the situation you described, Doban would not have dealt any damage to the creature.

DR applies to the base damage die and numerical bonuses of every single hit. DR does not apply to energy damage, and it does not apply to "both halves" of a critical hit; if Dobar had crit on that first hit and done 16 damage, 6 points of it would have gotten through.

Also, 3.5 DR is different from 3.0 DR. 10/+1 would likely be changed to 5/magic.
Crucifer
02-20-06, 07:30 AM "Also, 3.5 DR is different from 3.0 DR. 10/+1 would likely be changed to 5/magic."

Why was the change made?

I only have 3.0 Ed, so would be very interested in where I can get up to date information without having to purchase them.

Thanks

Cru
White_Wizard
02-20-06, 08:01 AM "Also, 3.5 DR is different from 3.0 DR. 10/+1 would likely be changed to 5/magic."

Why was the change made?

I only have 3.0 Ed, so would be very interested in where I can get up to date information without having to purchase them.

Thanks

Cru
You can still play 3.0 without many changes and, if you want to switch to 3.5 there are many WE that help you with conversions. Search the Wizards site.

The change has been made so that the DR varies now a lot. In 3.0 DR was based on enhancement bonus, now it's based on the type of weapon. 5/magic means that only magic weapons (no matter the enhancement bonus) can overcome it, while 5/silver means that only silver weapons can overcome it, while even a +5 great sword, if not made with silver, will have it's damage reduced by 5. Every attack (like fire, spells or energy damage) that surpassed DR in 3.0 still surpasses DR in 3.5.
Since it was easier to overcome DR in 3.0, 3.5 versions reduce less damage than their 3.0 counterparts, so 10 becomes 5 and so on. The phylosophy is that if in 3.0 fighting an iron golem was impossible without a +5 weapon, in 3.5 it's simply nearly impossible without an adamantite weapon because it's DR is 15/adamantine.
White_Wizard
02-20-06, 08:01 AM How does Damage Reduction (DR) actually work. Does it reduce every attack, or do each attack during said player's turn stack against it.

For instance, Doban the fighter has a +6/+1, giving him two attacks. He has a mundane sword and he's fighting a creature with 10/+1 DR.

First hit: 8 damage (not enough to over-come DR)
Second hit: 3 damage

Does Doban's damage stack against the DR for that turn dealing 11 (-10 for DR) =1 damage, or are his attacks counted separately, dealing absolutely no damage.
DR applies individually to each attack.
Zherog
02-20-06, 10:17 AM "Also, 3.5 DR is different from 3.0 DR. 10/+1 would likely be changed to 5/magic."

Why was the change made?

I only have 3.0 Ed, so would be very interested in where I can get up to date information without having to purchase them.

Thanks

Cru

The change was made, more or less, because DR in 3.0 became an "all or nothing" sort of proposition. Either every attack you made bypassed the creature's DR, or you couldn't get past it on your best non-crit hit. That's not too fun for the people who have to stand around with a thumb up their... er, sit around hoping they score the almighty crit.

A few things in 3.5 changed regarding DR. First, the amount came down - in some cases, it was cut in half. This means that if you can't bypass the DR, you're still likely to do some damage - which allows you to have fun.

Next, magic weapons no longer trump other types of DR. For example, in 3.0, a +1 dagger bypasses a lycanthrope's silver DR. This is no longer true in 3.5.

A few new types were added - cold iron and adamantine both come to mind.

Lastly, the way DR is overcome from a ranged weapon changed. In 3.0, the arrow had to have the property to bypass DR. For example, if you were facing a creature that has DR 20/+3, and all you have is plain ol' arrows, you won't be bypassing it's DR, even if you have an uber-leet, super-awesome bow. In 3.5, this has changed and now a magic bow bypasses DR X/Magic.

Overall, the changes were made to make creatures with DR a bit more vulnerable to other attacks in an attempt to increase the fun factor.
Nom
02-20-06, 05:32 PM I only have 3.0 Ed, so would be very interested in where I can get up to date information without having to purchase them.Most of the crunchy parts of the 3.5 edition ruleset are available via the System Reference Document (http://www.d20srd.org/). It's designed for use by module writers but makes a handy free public access rules reference for the rest of us. Since the DR rules aren't concerned with XP awards, character creation or levelling they are in there.
Why was the change made?In addition to Zherog's points: greater magic weapon. Under 3.0, GMW would effectively negate any CR appropriate DR. Under 3.5, the answer to DR is to do some research and find out what specific vulnerabilities the monsters have, not simply "get a bigger gun".

That said, "get a bigger gun" still works, just not quite as dramatically.
Maekrix
02-21-06, 07:12 PM Thanks for all the posts people.

And for clarification, that was a "for instance" ...Doban doesn't really exist
clannagh
02-21-06, 09:30 PM Just a note on the SRD's.

Whilst pretty much providing the full PHB, DMG and MM they are not always totally up to date in terms of errata. you need to check errata as well.
Dachannien
03-02-06, 12:42 PM Hehe, digging up a thread from page 10 here....

I'm also interested in using the DR modifications from 3.5 in my 3.0 campaign, but I don't want to do a full conversion. If I just use the new DRs together with the old monster stats, will it be imbalanced, or were the changes made with the intent of keeping the difficulty of the encounter the same?

In other words, are 10/+1 and 5/magic considered to be roughly equivalent in difficulty?
Merestil Haye
03-02-06, 02:00 PM WotC published a set of conversion booklets on their website when 3.5 came out. They enable you to adapt stuff from noncore 3.0 books over to 3.5.

The page is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a).

One thing I will say is that DR was not the only change to monsters. 3.0 had a very confusing system for monsters gaining skills and feats as they advanced. 3.5 simplified the issue a lot, giving all monsters feats at the same rate a PC gets them. It makes some difference to the threat level if you add a feat or two.
adder
03-02-06, 11:27 PM look, a +1 weapon (not mwk) is considered a magic weapon

but why did they reduce the DR, from 10 to 5

weird, 3.0 must be harder than 3.5
Kullak-Kobold Sorcerer
03-03-06, 12:53 AM look, a +1 weapon (not mwk) is considered a magic weapon

but why did they reduce the DR, from 10 to 5

weird, 3.0 must be harder than 3.5

The change was quite simple, threat rating. In 3.0, every adventurer had a magic weapon. As such, DR was mainly a plot device. A commoner coldn't harm something with DR 10/ +1 but any adventurer worth his name could bypass that easily.

In 3.5, having the proper material weapon is less likely, and as such they reduced the DR by 5 points. This means an adventurer is not as likely to have the proper material types, but can still manage to defeat the opponent without it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maekrix 02-19-06, 08:22 PM	How does Damage Reduction (DR) actually work. Does it reduce every attack, or do each attack during said player's turn stack against it. For instance, Doban the fighter has a +6/+1, giving him two attacks. He has a mundane sword and he's fighting a creature with 10/+1 DR. First hit: 8 damage (not enough to over-come DR) Second hit: 3 damage Does Doban's damage stack against the DR for that turn dealing 11 (-10 for DR) =1 damage, or are his attacks counted separately, dealing absolutely no damage.
CryoSilver 02-19-06, 08:29 PM	DR is assessed against each instance of damage. If a creature has DR 5/- and you hit it twice, for 6 and 2, you deal it 1 damage. 6-5=1 2-5=<0=0
Zherog 02-19-06, 08:29 PM	DR applies to each attack individually.
Shaggy_Shaggs 02-19-06, 08:39 PM	Also if a level six fighter can't push at least a few points of damage past DR 10/magic with a mundane weapon, he probably deserves to be eaten. Power Attack, people! :nonono:
Tyler Do'Urden 02-19-06, 08:45 PM	Yes, in the situation you described, Doban would not have dealt any damage to the creature. DR applies to the base damage die and numerical bonuses of every single hit. DR does not apply to energy damage, and it does not apply to "both halves" of a critical hit; if Dobar had crit on that first hit and done 16 damage, 6 points of it would have gotten through. Also, 3.5 DR is different from 3.0 DR. 10/+1 would likely be changed to 5/magic.
Crucifer 02-20-06, 07:30 AM	"Also, 3.5 DR is different from 3.0 DR. 10/+1 would likely be changed to 5/magic." Why was the change made? I only have 3.0 Ed, so would be very interested in where I can get up to date information without having to purchase them. Thanks Cru
White_Wizard 02-20-06, 08:01 AM	"Also, 3.5 DR is different from 3.0 DR. 10/+1 would likely be changed to 5/magic." Why was the change made? I only have 3.0 Ed, so would be very interested in where I can get up to date information without having to purchase them. Thanks Cru You can still play 3.0 without many changes and, if you want to switch to 3.5 there are many WE that help you with conversions. Search the Wizards site. The change has been made so that the DR varies now a lot. In 3.0 DR was based on enhancement bonus, now it's based on the type of weapon. 5/magic means that only magic weapons (no matter the enhancement bonus) can overcome it, while 5/silver means that only silver weapons can overcome it, while even a +5 great sword, if not made with silver, will have it's damage reduced by 5. Every attack (like fire, spells or energy damage) that surpassed DR in 3.0 still surpasses DR in 3.5. Since it was easier to overcome DR in 3.0, 3.5 versions reduce less damage than their 3.0 counterparts, so 10 becomes 5 and so on. The phylosophy is that if in 3.0 fighting an iron golem was impossible without a +5 weapon, in 3.5 it's simply nearly impossible without an adamantite weapon because it's DR is 15/adamantine.
White_Wizard 02-20-06, 08:01 AM	How does Damage Reduction (DR) actually work. Does it reduce every attack, or do each attack during said player's turn stack against it. For instance, Doban the fighter has a +6/+1, giving him two attacks. He has a mundane sword and he's fighting a creature with 10/+1 DR. First hit: 8 damage (not enough to over-come DR) Second hit: 3 damage Does Doban's damage stack against the DR for that turn dealing 11 (-10 for DR) =1 damage, or are his attacks counted separately, dealing absolutely no damage. DR applies individually to each attack.
Zherog 02-20-06, 10:17 AM	"Also, 3.5 DR is different from 3.0 DR. 10/+1 would likely be changed to 5/magic." Why was the change made? I only have 3.0 Ed, so would be very interested in where I can get up to date information without having to purchase them. Thanks Cru The change was made, more or less, because DR in 3.0 became an "all or nothing" sort of proposition. Either every attack you made bypassed the creature's DR, or you couldn't get past it on your best non-crit hit. That's not too fun for the people who have to stand around with a thumb up their... er, sit around hoping they score the almighty crit. A few things in 3.5 changed regarding DR. First, the amount came down - in some cases, it was cut in half. This means that if you can't bypass the DR, you're still likely to do some damage - which allows you to have fun. Next, magic weapons no longer trump other types of DR. For example, in 3.0, a +1 dagger bypasses a lycanthrope's silver DR. This is no longer true in 3.5. A few new types were added - cold iron and adamantine both come to mind. Lastly, the way DR is overcome from a ranged weapon changed. In 3.0, the arrow had to have the property to bypass DR. For example, if you were facing a creature that has DR 20/+3, and all you have is plain ol' arrows, you won't be bypassing it's DR, even if you have an uber-leet, super-awesome bow. In 3.5, this has changed and now a magic bow bypasses DR X/Magic. Overall, the changes were made to make creatures with DR a bit more vulnerable to other attacks in an attempt to increase the fun factor.
Nom 02-20-06, 05:32 PM	I only have 3.0 Ed, so would be very interested in where I can get up to date information without having to purchase them.Most of the crunchy parts of the 3.5 edition ruleset are available via the System Reference Document (http://www.d20srd.org/). It's designed for use by module writers but makes a handy free public access rules reference for the rest of us. Since the DR rules aren't concerned with XP awards, character creation or levelling they are in there. Why was the change made?In addition to Zherog's points: greater magic weapon. Under 3.0, GMW would effectively negate any CR appropriate DR. Under 3.5, the answer to DR is to do some research and find out what specific vulnerabilities the monsters have, not simply "get a bigger gun". That said, "get a bigger gun" still works, just not quite as dramatically.
Maekrix 02-21-06, 07:12 PM	Thanks for all the posts people. And for clarification, that was a "for instance" ...Doban doesn't really exist
clannagh 02-21-06, 09:30 PM	Just a note on the SRD's. Whilst pretty much providing the full PHB, DMG and MM they are not always totally up to date in terms of errata. you need to check errata as well.
Dachannien 03-02-06, 12:42 PM	Hehe, digging up a thread from page 10 here.... I'm also interested in using the DR modifications from 3.5 in my 3.0 campaign, but I don't want to do a full conversion. If I just use the new DRs together with the old monster stats, will it be imbalanced, or were the changes made with the intent of keeping the difficulty of the encounter the same? In other words, are 10/+1 and 5/magic considered to be roughly equivalent in difficulty?
Merestil Haye 03-02-06, 02:00 PM	WotC published a set of conversion booklets on their website when 3.5 came out. They enable you to adapt stuff from noncore 3.0 books over to 3.5. The page is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a). One thing I will say is that DR was not the only change to monsters. 3.0 had a very confusing system for monsters gaining skills and feats as they advanced. 3.5 simplified the issue a lot, giving all monsters feats at the same rate a PC gets them. It makes some difference to the threat level if you add a feat or two.
adder 03-02-06, 11:27 PM	look, a +1 weapon (not mwk) is considered a magic weapon but why did they reduce the DR, from 10 to 5 weird, 3.0 must be harder than 3.5
Kullak-Kobold Sorcerer 03-03-06, 12:53 AM	look, a +1 weapon (not mwk) is considered a magic weapon but why did they reduce the DR, from 10 to 5 weird, 3.0 must be harder than 3.5 The change was quite simple, threat rating. In 3.0, every adventurer had a magic weapon. As such, DR was mainly a plot device. A commoner coldn't harm something with DR 10/ +1 but any adventurer worth his name could bypass that easily. In 3.5, having the proper material weapon is less likely, and as such they reduced the DR by 5 points. This means an adventurer is not as likely to have the proper material types, but can still manage to defeat the opponent without it.