Post/Author/DateTime	Post
IrishRover 01-25-07, 01:31 PM	I'm curious about what level Damage reduction: Magic stops becoming a significant factor in a critter's survivability against a party. It's clearly a major headache for a first level party--and seldom an issue for a 7th or 8th level group.
Vegepygmy 01-25-07, 01:38 PM	The campaign I'm currently playing in is at 4th level, and our last encounter was with a DR 10/magic opponent. It was a major factor.
Merestil Haye 01-25-07, 01:56 PM	There are two main ways of getting through DR / Magic : spells and magic weapons. (I'm disregarding "being of a race with DR x / Magic"). Items : A magic melee weapon costs in excess of 2,300gp (assuming it's not a club). Assuming the DM is keeping aroundabout the wealth-by-level guidelines on page 135 of the DMG, a 3rd level character with a +1 weapon has pretty much mortgaged everything else and is probably wandering around in studded leather armour (at best) and would have problems against tough creatures that he could not drop in one shot. An Ogre, for example. I would reckon that a frontliner should be aiming at getting a +1 weapon sometime between reaching 4th and 6th level, depending on the wealth level of the campaign and the importance he places on having a magic weapon. Spells : There are two to consider. Magic Weapon is easily available, but is a short duration. You can't count on it being available in every encounter. Greater Magic Weapon will last for hours, and might first become available as early as 5th, although 7th is a more likely marker, as the cleric gains access to it at 7th level, and does not have to learn it. So by 8th level (when GMW gives a +2 bonus and lasts for 8 hours) magic weapons should be easily available to the group. Lastly there is the monk's Ki Strike class ability, which he gains at 4th class level. In summary - between 4th and 8th level, DR / Magic ceases to be a factor. Exactly when depends on DM and in-character decisions.
ShinAkuma2 01-25-07, 05:08 PM	For monsters: Around 5th or 6th, I think. For PCs: If you're fighting monsters, there are plenty of monsters of varying CRs that can't do magic damage using natural weapons, so it will almost always be relevant at any given level. Against weapon-using humanoids, it's not so great.
runestar 01-25-07, 11:27 PM	You have the magic weapon spell at 1st lv...:)
tarkin 01-26-07, 10:30 AM	But most people won't waste their time using that spell, it is weak. +1 to hit and +1 to damage is simply not worth all that much. Greater Magic Weapon is more like it.
Someone 01-26-07, 01:30 PM	DR/magic still has a few uses at higher levels. Mostly against "collisions" like falling or bull rushes. DR 10 could soak up all the damage from a 30 ft. fall (if you're lucky).
runestar 01-26-07, 10:10 PM	But most people won't waste their time using that spell, it is weak. +1 to hit and +1 to damage is simply not worth all that much. Yeah, but it is also one of your few defenses against low lv incorporeal foes, like shadows.:)
SALDAR 01-27-07, 11:28 AM	But most people won't waste their time using that spell, it is weak. +1 to hit and +1 to damage is simply not worth all that much. A +1 may not seem to be worth much but at lower levels when you hit a creaure with DR/Magic you will do all of the damage you roll.
Empiro 01-27-07, 06:49 PM	DR/magic can still be important for a monster with either disarm or improved grab. Most fighters don't have magical armor spikes. I remember that a fiendish behir gave my party huge issues after it swallowed the fighter type of the party. I ruled that the monster's stomach didn't have DR so he was able to cut his way out with a regular weapon. Otherwise, it would have been death for sure.
JulesCARV 01-27-07, 07:02 PM	A soulknife gets through DR / magic at level 1. Probably the one reason someone might play a soulknife is if its a low-level campaign facing a lot of low-level enemies with DR / magic like dolgrims.
runestar 01-27-07, 09:34 PM	And the fiendish template grants dr/magic if applied to a high HD/low cr creature.:)
bondious 01-27-07, 10:03 PM	Here's another thought, kinda along the lines of the armor spikes statement above. At lower levels, you'd probably only have ONE magical weapon. So what if you drop it in the middle of combat, and don't want or can't risk the attack of opportunity to pick it up, and have to resort to you secondary, non-magical weapon? That DR/Magic creature just got a BIG advantage. Same thing if, say, you have a magic melee weapon and want to get a ranged shot in (non-magical bow, crossbow, javelin), possibly during a surprise round. Or vice versa, you have a magic ranged weapon but only a munane (or possibly masterwork) melee weapon, and are forced into melee. I can see this issue coming up AT LEAST until the PC has some extra gp to buy themselves +1 "back-up" weapons. After 10th level, at the most, I don't see the DR/Magic being all that great. I guess it means that the DR/Magic creature has superiority against a bunch of low-level threats, but against a PC it really doesn't matter by then. Maybe useful against a PC's low-level followers? I think that this is one of the reasons that I don't see the Invulnerability (+3, DR 5/magic) as being all that good. MAYBE if you get a bunch of money at a low level, then yeah, but MOST of the foes you'll face will be able to overcome it by mid-level, and then it's useless. Now if it granted DR/- (even if it was less than 5, say 3), or DR 5/magic and one special material (silver, cold iron, adamantine; chosen when created), then that wouldn't be half bad, in my opinion.
Vaalingrade Ashland 01-28-07, 07:20 AM	DR/magic is all but useless for monsters, as they're going to be taking magic weapons and spells almost exclusively from level 3-4 onward. Current dragon DR is laughable. For NPCs, DR/magic is moderately useful for humanoid/monsterous humanoids as the PCs are likely to use alternative tactics aganst them. Sadly, that DR will be pathetic due to the game's abject terror of PCs gaining a long term DR greater than 5.